Talk:Fi

Phi

Where does it said the Skyward Sword's name is Phi? --Cococrash11 23:50, 8 June 2011 (EDT)

Mentioned by Miya in roundtable with IGN. The name may not correspond to the North American version, though, hence why this is currently a redirect to another page.--User:K2L/sig 01:41, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

Seems like Dany36 lied XD. My bad, I hadn't even seen the article yet. Self-reminder: never trust Skype. --User:K2L/sig 01:43, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

Phi's POSSIBLE Name Origins.

It is in possible origin, it's name is based from the Greek letter, Phi, Φ, also having some of the terms I have learned and saw on information websites, being; In cartography and navigation, latitude, or; in flight dynamics. It's name also currently fits in with the word, Philosophy, which is also another meaning of the letter. It is also possible with the word: Physical, with a sacred power, that she does in fact have, and she also has a semi physical form, and will have in the future in the game possibly. Do you guys agree on this possible speculation on her name origins or not? Go ahead and comment if you wish. Half of this is credited to K2L for finding half of the information and possible origin on Phi. ~ Hylian Historic ~ 04:45, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

I think the reference to philosophy is a solid hypothesis, but I don't know about the cartography. Phi is used in general physics as a variable to represent angles (x is to distance as phi is to angle) it's used to determine anything from angular velocity and trig functions all the way to engineering applications like the propensity for inertial cavitation on a rotor or a pump (a particularly annoying problem for SSB's and their families in the Navy) "Fortunis" -16:59 (UST-6) 20121117

Name Pronunciation.

I think the pronunciation of Phi should be added, because some people will think it's pronounced "fee" when it is pronounced "fai."MadMags 13:53, 9 June 2011 (EDT)

This is a good idea. Can we confirm that Phi is indeed pronounced "fai" and not "fee", though? — Hylian King ^[*] 19:03, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

I might argue that is is pronounced "fee". My support is that if it is, in fact, meant to be the representation of the note. It would then be pronounced 'fee'. Also when English mechanics are introduced, the absence of the e at the end of the word denied the vowel the long sound or the 'ai' so it would be fee or fi (as is fish without the sh). Fortunis 16:47:17 (UST-6:00)

I don't have it on hand, but it was pronunced as "Fai" in an interview with the localization team. Additionally, it's pronounced like that in Japanese, so "Fai" is canon. - Tony^{T S C} 21:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Fi's comment?

Fi can tell about enemies like Navi and Tatl. Should we add "Fi's Comment"? Technickal 16:42, 17 November 2011 (EST)

Gender

Pakkun, Fi is a "she." The game directly calls her "she," and there's refs on the page to support that. Why are you changing all the pronouns to "it?"User:Justin/sig 21:27, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I consider the word of Aonuma more canonical than what very well may be a translation error. I agree that I don't think it has feminine organs, but I also doubt that Fi is of the female gender. Even though Fi's voice is feminine, its style of speech is still very neutral and robotic.

I think it's obvious that it was intended to be genderless, despite what's likely interpretation on the translator's part. It is definitely feminine, but you can program a robot to be so, yet it doesn't change the fact that it's a gender-neutral entity. (If it helps, think of Fi as a mannequin. No matter what wig or clothes you put on it or even what pose you put it in, it's still an object.)

It's been brought up that we consider Ghirahim to be male, but that I consider Fi to be genderless. However, my counter to this is that while they may be (it's only implied) to be the same species (Sword Spirit), I believe they're programmed differently and serve different functions. Ghirahim is prone to fits of rage, while Fi is cold and emotionless.

If they are indeed of the same so-called species, that doesn't mean they have to have binary attributes. Ghirahim can be created as a male with masculine body, organs and fallible emotions, which allow him to serve his duty as Demise's envoy.

On the other hand, Fi was created with a feminine-ish body (including vocal cords, but I believe it lacks the female organs to identify as having female sex), but it was created to be an intellectual resource to aid Link. Its purpose is to identify and assess key information. The only time it sings is when it's orating a message or performing a duty relevant to the task of singing. For this, I just consider it a necessary application "downloaded" into Fi's memory to accomplish these duties. Basically, it's just an incidentally necessary component for Fi to have feminine traits, including the voice, so that it may fill its role. And perhaps it is because of these traits, despite their intention, that Zelda refers to Fi as female.

In reality, I seriously doubt that Fi identifies as female in any manner. It's just as likely that Zelda treats Fi as female because she herself is human and fallible in her own right to the extent that she now shows a range of compassion that she lacked as a deity. As for other characters, including the narrative, it may be that they're simply ignorant to the fact that it was created as a walking memory receptacle and tour guide. It's also possible that they're just ignorant to the fact that binary genders don't necessarily exist. Even Scrapper could have just a sexual attraction to Fi (the Ancient Robots have some means of reproduction, as Skipper had children), in that he is only attracted to its production design and recognizes it as a female unit. - Tony^{T S C} 00:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I think that a "translation error" is out of the question when Fi is referred to as female by just about everything in the game. But you do make valid points, although I'm still not convinced. At this point, you should make a section on the talk page and see what everyone thinks. If the consensus is to use "it," then I'll concede. But until then, we should leave it as "she."User:Justin/sig 00:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

The discussion has been moved to this talk page so other people may add their input. - Tony^{T S C} 01:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Well...technically, Scrapper isn't male. The robots are known to have been manufactured, and I don't think they reproduce seeing as how they all died. (In the case of Skipper's "child", it could have been based on him being the leader-model, which could lead some robots to view him as a parent) But Scrapper still identifies as a male, and everyone calls him "he" even if technically he's an "it". I don't see why Fi couldn't fall under similar circumstances. So if anything, it relates to gender identity, rather than biological sex alone. Even if it is only in the translated versions. I wonder if there were any gender-identifiers in the Japanese game. Jo the Marten ಠ_ಠ 04:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

^Basically that, I also agree that if in-game Fi is referred to as a "she" that she should be identified as such on the article. User:Mandi/sig 04:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I generally agree with Pakkun because I respect the Original. However, when you take the Canon Policy serious then Fi has to remain female in the main article, since Fi is refered to as She throughout the game. Mentioning Fi's possible gender neutrality in the Original would have to be placed in the Trivia or somewhere else. Bakeneko 05:56, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

@Jo the Marten: That's exactly my point. It comes to gender identity and what other characters say interpret about Fi doesn't bear on whether or not it identifies as female, male, or neither.

@Bakeneko: It's not just a canon issue between the games; Eiji Aonuma has went out on record to state that it isn't female. - Tony^{T S C} 06:48, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Pakkun, Aonuma said that Fi is not female PER SE. What this most likely means is that Fi does not have the female sex organs and therefore, by the human definition of "female," she is not. However, she is feminine in every other way, and to say that she's an "it" because of this is like calling a woman "it" after she has a hysterectomy performed. Yes, in technical terms, the woman has become genderless because she can't reproduce, but she's still a woman.User:Justin/sig 07:10, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Neither does Aonuma's quote directly imply that Fi considers itself a female. He only recognizes that it has a feminine body. As I said in my initial response, it may only have a feminine body to serve its role as a messenger. In its simplest terms: an app placed onto the otherwise genderless device.

Barring appearance and voice, nothing about Fi's character indicates that it's female. It lacks female-typical mannerisms and only sees itself as something programmed with a mission. It only even uses its name because that's what it was designated. I believe that Fi lacks an identity of self, much less gender.

In response to your "hysterectomy" argument, it's the same as calling a machine a "she" when given the ability to dispense lactic fluid or, say, incubate a fetus. - Tony^{T S C} 07:40, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

But she is identified as female by others and does not object to this. That makes her gender identity female. Furthermore, I feel that the article at the very least should specify she has no sex. Dekler 00:59, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

If the game refers to her as a she and does not refer to her as "it", then refer to her as she. By all means add that she's technically genderless somewhere, if Aonuma has said so. Making suppositions about what she or Ghirahim or whoever considers themselves to be is pointless. I could add more to this, but that's pretty much all that needs to be said. User:Fizzle/sig 02:01, 25 December 2012 (UTC)