Talk: Sheikah

Sheik is not a Sheikah

Sheik is Zelda. Zelda is a Hylian. Sheik =/= Sheikah.

Hylian = anyone living in Hyrule. What you should have said was that Zelda is a human, which the games seem to be making more of a big deal about making a point of. Regardless, though, while Zelda may be human, when she transforms into Sheik she is physically Sheikah, therefore Sheik = Sheikah. --Ando 10:03, 7 February 2008 (EST)

I think you're all confusing Hylian with Hyrulean. Also, if you consider the Sheikah as a tribe rather than a race, as suggested below, then the problem ceases to exist. --Adam ^(talk) 13:17, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Ah. "Hylian" and "Hyrulean" always confused me as a kid, and I never bothered to get it straightened out. :P --Ando 19:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Sheik is a Sheikah

Hylians are anyone who resembles a human. Sheikahs are a tribe who were used to protect the Royal Family. So that means Sheik is a Sheikah.

The Sheikah were a special race of humans that were mostly killed out, and those left protected the royal family. Hylians are another special race of humans with pointed ears, and regarded as closest to the gods. The Sheikah are the shadow folk, the Gerudo the spirit folk, the Hylia the light folk, etc...KrytenKoro 21:44, 7 February 2008 (EST)

And Hyruleans are people living in Hyrule. Toon Link 2 11:54, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Shiek is a Shiekah

I'm not entirely sure the Sheikah are another race entirely. More of a cult, I think.

I think "tribe" would be the best description (as suggested above), and I'm almost sure that's used in-game at some point? Anyone? --Adam ^(talk) 13:17, 7 February 2008 (EST)

I just went through the text dump and I found nothing about their status as a tribe or anything except maybe this:

"Have you heard the legend of the 'Shadow Folk'? They are the Sheikah...the shadows of the Hylians."

That's it. They're known as the "Shadow Folk" and they're called the "shadows of the Hylians". That's it. Nothing else to be found. :/ --Ando 19:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)

The japanese does use "zoku" to refer to them, meaning tribe. (シーカー族). However, I'm pretty sure they're one of the human tribes, since Gerudo and Hylia are included in that grouping.KrytenKoro 21:42, 7 February 2008 (EST)

I have been thinking about that too. They seem more of cult and tribe to me then a race. I mean, they are hardly a race in my eyes. They resemble Hylians with Silver hair and red eyes which for all we know could just be a coincidence. I mean just cause Impa had red eyes and silver hair doesn't mean every Shiekah does. And as Impaz, she is probably a relative from Impa so obviously she would look a lot like hair. Just my thoughts. -Lord Harken

In my opinion the sheikah are more like to be a race since they are told to be the "Shadows of the Hylians". Hylian is a race, Gerudo another race (obvious because they have a man born only every 100 years) and Sheikahs is a race as well for been the shadow of another race and have similaritys between them like red eyes and white hair. If they were told to be the shadows of the hyrulean the story would be completely different. Just my thoughts too. --Fella 01:36, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Agahnim?

Agahnim couldn't have been the traitor that caused them to put the tear on the symbol, seeing how Ocarina Of Time happened before A Link To The Past, and therefore the tear would've already been there.

"Legends of the Temple"

Exactly what temple are we talking about? What is that section supposed to be? I'd write something there but... not sure what exactly is supposed to go there. :/ --Ando 10:03, 7 February 2008 (EST)

You should ask KrytenKoro since he added it, along with the text: "". --Adam ^(talk) 13:17, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Wait, I found something in the game. When you meet Sheik in the Temple of Time, he says this:

"When evil rules all, an awakening voice from the Sacred Realm will call those destined to be Sages, who dwell in the five temples. One in a deep forest... One on a high mountain... One under a vast lake... One within the house of the dead... One inside a goddess of the sand... Together with the Hero of Time, the awakened ones will bind the evil and return the light of peace to the world... This is the legend of the temples passed down by my people, the Sheikah."

So I'm guessing that's what KrytenKoro meant by that. Beyond that quote, though, there's seems to be no more information about this supposed legend. Would this make the section moot, considering there's really nothing more to write? --Ando 19:11, 7 February 2008 (EST)

All I know is that it is specifically said to be a Sheikah legend, so it should be mentioned or linked to on this page. Plus we can get rid of that ugly "Temples of Power" page, since that name doesn't even make sense.KrytenKoro 21:39, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Who decided to delete all the info from the section but leave the section title? It makes the page look very, very sloppy. I don't know why this was done, and it probably should have been discussed on the talk page. So then my question is this: why is it like this?--Magnus orion 21:16, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Um, if you read my post above, I explained that the section has always been blank. It was added with no (visible) text as a "placeholder", and the posts above explain (roughly) what was intended to go there. Nothing has ever been deleted from the section. Hence the {{sectstub}} template. —Adam ^(talk) 13:37, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Oh... While this explains why there is no info there... It still makes the page look sloppy... I beleive we have two options: add the bit above with the quote and such, or delete the title section... I know that the game says it is a sheikah legend, so it probably should be mentioned in a little detail, while noting that it is disputed as to whether the person speaking even counts as a shiekah... --Magnus orion 18:04, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

OK, go ahead and add it. It can always be discussed/changed/removed later if required (as long as there's actually something there to start with!) —Adam ^(talk) 13:29, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

I'm not entirely convinced that there's actually something to put there, honestly. It's hardly referenced at all in the game, except for "There are five sages you must save, and beat Ganon with them. That's the legend." I really can't think of any way that that could be expanded upon within the article. --Ando (T : C) 13:34, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Males?

Although the red eyes are a key example of what makes a Shiekah, so is silver/gray hair. Yet, all the possible male Shiekahs do not have silver/gray hair. The only known male to have both red eyes and silver/gray hair is the Fierce Deity transformation from Majora's Mask. However, this is just a transformation the mask does to you. Could this mean that the reason the females only appear and that there are no mention of male Shiekah is because the traitor the tale speaks of could have in fact killed all the males, or at least most of them. It's all my speculation of course. If i'm wrong on anything please correct me. ~User:Lord Harken

We have met two Sheikah (plus possibly Impaz): Impa and Sheik. What we know of the Sheikah are from them. Impa is supposedly the last of her kind (although TP indicates that they just formed the Hidden Village). Sheik isn't even a real Sheikah. We can make no assumptions based on those two. Especially because it's possible that Impa just grayed up early.

And I'm sure the "traitor" thing comes from the manga only, so nothing in there makes really much difference to Sheikah lore. Saibh 20:46, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

the eye symbol

The eye symbol tear drop stuff from the manga was receantly switched from 'may or may not be canon' to 'is not canon'. While I agree that the OoT, or any other Manga is not technically canon, ideas presented in it can be. For example, in the OoT manga, Shiek attempts to hide his/her idenity from Ganondorf by pretending to work for him, and nothing in the OoT game directly contradicts that he/she may have been pretending to work for Ganondorf to fool him. While I personally don't believe this, it may or may not be canon, even though its source contains material that verifiably isn't. Therefore, nintendo hasn't done anything to negate the manga's statement in any way, unlike say, the volgania (is that how you spell it?) issue, where the game directly contradicts the manga. Since the Manga is (most likely) approved by nintendo, anything that they do not directly contradict may possibly be canon.--Magnus orion 21:37, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Again, we can't assume things. It's not canon, because we've never had any indication that anything that happens exclusively in the manga is. Besides, the sentence said, specifically, that the manga may not be canon, not that the legend did.

I've said this before, there can be no assuming things because of lack of the otherwise. You can indicate that it's a widely-accepted theory, but you can't just say "it is" because nothing ever says "it's not". The manga is not canon. You have to agree with that. Nothing in it can be taken for canon, or possible canon. Things that happen in it can be used to back up, but not prove, and it never equates canon. Regardless, the most important point is that the sentence indicated that the manga might not be canon, not that legend (again).

Anything that happens in the manga we don't see in the games is non-canon. There should be no gray zone--there are theories (like Impaz being a Sheikah) that are backed up by canon, but not just ones that work because they don't contradict canon.

A better phrasing would be "In the manga, Sheik explains that blah blah, which may be applicable to the game." or some such. At any rate, this is my personal policy. Saibh 06:14, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Ah... Ok, the wording caught me. In my mind it was implying that not only was the manga not canon, but everything in the manga was not canon as well. And yes, I agree, we can't assume anything. Its just that the manga had to be approved by nintendo, so there is the possiblity of nintendo actually using parts of it as 'canon', but regradless of views and other things, the information should be included in the wiki, unbiasedly, for its mention. (PS It may not be aparent from my first post, but I loathe the manga because of the way it is written and its sheer contradiction of canon. I just think that information should just be included regardless of whether or not it is agreed with, just noting that the manga does not, necessarily consitute canon)--Magnus orion 17:13, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

"Passing References?"

Why do games like Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker which don't feature the Sheikah in any fashion have their own sections? I thought stuff like the eye symbol in the Forsaken Fortress would just be listed under Trivia or somesuch. Ganondorfdude11 00:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, the Impa from the Oracles games is never confirmed to be Sheikah. Ganondorfdude11 00:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

No, if there is a reference or appearance of the Sheikah, I gave them a section each, I see nothing wrong with that. I will try to write in that no actual Sheikah themselves appear in the game however, as you have said. I just want to make sure the games that do have references to the Sheikah are given note as well, that's all. And the Impa of the Oracle games is never said not to have been a Sheikah either, but following OOT, the Impa character is established as a Sheikah, and her possession of the red eyes and pointed ears proves that. It is not confirmed about the versions of Impa before OOT, but OOT and beyond do establish her as a Sheikah. Link87 00:48, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The red eyes and pointed ears rule is generally fanon-made, so the Impa from the Oracles should really go under "Possible Members," because she is never said to be Sheikah. Note that she doesn't even wear the eye symbol. It might be a similar situation to Fado, where there are two Fados who are Kokiri but one who is Ordonian. I'm not saying she isn't one, but it isn't confirmed and is really presumptuous to assign a race to a character when the name of the race isn't even mentioned in dialogue or heavily implied like in the Twilight Princess case.Ganondorfdude11 00:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Ganondorfdude11, those are not fanon-made, they are featured in-game and established as such. Fado is merely a name, not a biological feature, so that does not really compare in this case. All evidence points to her being one, and it is established post-1998 that her character is of the Sheikah race. It is the early games that are unknown. I see no presumption in the establishment by Nintendo that starting after 1998, her character is defined as a Sheikah, and even that is kept in TP. Impaz is all but certain to be a Sheikah, and she even states that she is named for the one that founded the village, which most agree is Impa. That being said, the Sheikah establishment of Impa's character has been established since 1998 and hasn't changed since. Link87 01:00, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Just be careful not to read into things too much to force them to fit possible theories. Impaz being named for Impa does not mean she's a descendent of Impa, nor does it mean she's Sheikah. Look at OoT, Darunia names his son after Link the Hylian. So Link the Goron can say that he was named for the Hero of Time, but that does not make him Hylian, nor a descendent of Link. Lysia 01:47, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Duly noted Lysia, but it does not read that Impaz is Impa's descendant, but it's all but certain her name comes from Impa however, the evidence is overwhelming there. Link87 01:51, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

While it's true that the implication is there, it could very well be like the Fado case. I just think that she should be moved down into the "possible members" section we have already. And stuff like the Gossip Stones and Eye Symbol should really be compressed into one section. No Sheikah are seen in The Wind Waker, Majora's Mask, or Phantom Hourglass. The eye symbols are just cameo appearances, so maybe trim and put a section for cameos? Ganondorfdude11 01:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

The Fado case is merely concerning a name though GD11, it's not about biological features like this case. They are completely different. And as for the possible members section, I had planned to phase that out since the community did not like it and put the label on the page to begin with. Did you see the structure I developed in my sandbox? What are your feelings on the way it has shaped up there? And I am open to the idea you suggested about compressing, but can you explain or elaborate more for me so I have a clearer idea what you mean? Link87 01:07, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

There is clear evidence that Impa from Oracles is supposed to be Sheikah, so I'm not messing with that anymore. Ganondorfdude11 01:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

That's all right GD11, but can you tell me more about your other idea? What did you mean? Are you wanting to keep the Members of the Tribe section or not?? Link87 01:17, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I read through and saw that most of the stuff in that section was covered by your text, so I just deleted it. Ganondorfdude11 05:15, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Should Hero's Charm be mentioned in the Artifacts section?

This is a problematic thing to place. It is mentioned as being a cameo of the Sheikah eye symbol in the The Wind Waker section, and functions much like the Lens of Truth and the Mask of Truth in that it reveals enemy health. Since references to the Sheikah are few, I'm not sure if the implication is supposed to be that it's Sheikah in origin or not. Any thoughts? Ganondorfdude11 18:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

What references for it do you have? Tetra's little stone thing could be mentioned I think. User:Axiomist/sig 18:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Tetra's Pirate Charm is essentially a portable Gossip Stone, so I'll add it to the Gossip stone section. There are no references for the Hero's Charm, so I guess it would be better to leave it off. It does seem suspiciously similar to the Mask of Truth. But that might just be personal opinion talking. Ganondorfdude11 19:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Theories

Christopher, you re-added the following sentence into this article, which had been removed:

"A very similar symbol appears on the throne of the ruler of the Twilight Realm and on the back of the Fused Shadow as well."

This is in the revision dated 01:38, 27 October 2009. Your comment was, "...it is noteworthy b/c that is what has given rise to the Interloper/Twili Theory that has to be written." Theories should be kept separate from the main article. So wouldn't it be better to put this sentence into the theory section itself, once it's been written? I don't like the idea of including it in the main article purely to support a theory, especially as said theory hasn't even been written yet. Lysia 05:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Lysia, I re-added it yes, but made clear that it is not identical to the main Sheikah symbol. We spoke of Agahnim's symbol as well, so there's really no difference there. I can understand what you are saying, but it's not really a theory to simply point out that a similar symbol appears in those places in the game as well. So what I'm saying is please don't confuse the theory itself with a minor tidbit that is not a theory but a fact. That being said, I took the liberty to go on and write that particular section for the theory so that others may understand that statement above better. If you still want it removed from the main article after this, that is fine, but there is really no difference between this and Agahnim's symbol being spoken about in the "Eye of the Sheikah" section, and none of those are theories, they are just statements made to mark those appearances of similar symbols. Link87 15:38, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

It should go in the "Trivia" section, anyway... —Alter ^{{T C B H }} 22:39, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

That is also possible, but it deals with the symbol. Either way, I don't mind, but it is relevant as I said, both Agahnim's symbol as well as the Twili symbol b/c they show the evolution of Nintendo's use of such a symbol. Link87 23:02, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Upon closer inspection of the Twili symbol, it doesn't seem to represent an eye at all. Maybe we're just seeing something in a geometric design that's not supposed to indicate anything? Ganondorfdude11 04:00, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Disregard the previous statement, I was thinking of a different symbol. Ganondorfdude11 04:02, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

At least a Thank you ZeldaWikia?

Your article was completely extracted from Zelda Wikia, link here [http:/zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Sheikah Sheikah]. Our wikis don't say a word about copyrights because that is not the idea, but what you did was so obvious, I think the idea is to compete not copy, but all I see here is a paraphrased text, same titles with different order, and nothing new to give. At least a please or thank you could have work. I don't know how you admins congratulate the user/users that do this kind of things. TheNewSheik 17:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not defending anyone, but if they copied it we wouldn't have references, images, and it would have been done in fewer edits. Our Zelda games are pretty much the same, and encyclopedias follow similar formats. So the overview between the two are going to have similarities. If we have an article for Spirit Tracks before Wikia, don't expect me to accuse anyone of 'copying' our article. User:Axiomist/sig 17:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a false accusation I'm afraid, all of this article was written by heart, not by copying or paraphrasing, and I will not "thank" anyone that had nothing to do with the aiding of building this article from scratch. Those that deserve thanks are Ax, GD11, and whoever else aided in this article's face-lift. This article is bound to be somewhat similar to any article written on the Sheikah. Simply b/c it may now surpass ZP's does not give them ownership over any part of this topic. So sorry, but I do not give credit where it is not due ZP. Link87 17:43, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Well solving minor details, our Sheikah article has references and images.If you didn't extract all you did from Zeldawikia, then link me something as complete a now the two wikis Sheikah articles. You won't find. Telling that you didn't have a window with Zeldawikia open while you write is hard to believe. I will no demand you to give credits, is enough with you daring to say you didn't copy anything. TheNewSheik 03:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Warping User:Axiomist/sig 03:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry NewSheik, but not one word of our article comes from yours, considering that ZP's is full of fan-fic statements that have no references to back them up and that it has a confusing structure to it. I'd suggest you go back to your own wiki and do something constructive, like cleaning up the fan-fic. And for your information, if we copied so much, why is our article's history filled with edits proving we made this article piece-by-piece?? It's a little hard to dispute cold, hard fact. As I said before though, I suggest you quit belly-aching about our article's new quality and go do something constructive on your own wiki. Link87 04:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean? Our Sheikah article has even a page with all the references for the article, didn't you checked it when you use your Gust Jar function? And what about doing part by part? you could have went "warping" part by part from our article, also I imagine that admins need to correct when you do a bad paraphrasis. Our so fan fic? why to use it? TheNewSheik 04:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Not one reference I could see on that page period, and for the last time, yours was not used as a reference at all for that very reason. It's inevitable some things are going to be similar. Oh yes, and our articles are about the same size, and half of yours is theory or fan-fic, so that doesn't really count. Sorry to disappoint you buddy, but you're making false accusations that don't have any place here. Link87 04:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I can personally guarantee that every article on here is the work of a collaboration of individuals writing by heart. Nothing here was taken from Zeldapedia. I've contributed to a good portion of these articles and I've seen the rest. Please don't chuck accusations at us. Thank you. And you should probably cool off just a bit. If you think you have real evidence of theft, calmly and kindly bring it up on an administrator's talk page.—Justin^(Talk) 04:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't now what is your basis to say ours Sheikah article is fan-fic find for Sheikah/Quotes to see who is doing bad accusations? but if your are so based on references and in a encyclopedic way, for a start, then where are the references for the manga part or for one of your first sentences: "magical race devoted to the great Golden Goddesses"? TheNewSheik 04:44, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I will not continue with the discussion, it was enough taking a part of the disscusion page. I hope not to be discussing again soon. Long life to the user who write with the heart!TheNewSheik 04:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

TheNewSheik, once again, ours is based solely upon fact, and the same cannot be said for ZP's article (for example, see some of their wild claims about Bongo Bongo and the like on their page). Your accusations are false, and we have multiple members that can attest that this page was our own work. CASE DISMISSED. Link87 04:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't want to restart but our Bongo-Bongo section is under the theory template. And again that devotion to the goddesses is untrue in the parameters of fact. TheNewSheik 04:57, 1 November 2009 (UTC)