User talk:Mordred 13

That Dragon Roost Island and the Death Mountain of Ocarina of Time are the same place is questionable. That's because, first of all, since we can't see the exact place of the Dragon Roost Island peak (since they're all mountain peaks). Second, if we take on account the distances, Dragon Roost Island is farther away from Hyrule Castle than Ocarina of Time's Death Mountain. And third, since Nintendo tends to change Hyrule's terrain from game to game (that or there are several places with Hyrule Castles, sometimes I like to think A Link to the Past's "Hyrule" is East of Ocarina of Time's Hyrule, but I think that's just arbitrary)

Barba and Volvagia Link

I found something interesting looking at the Japanese names for Barba and Volvagia, who are already uncannily similar:

Their Japanese names are Barubajia and Varubajia, respectively. Aren't B and V supposed to be used somewhat interchangeably in Japanese?

Japanese names found here: http://bestiary.zeldalegends.net/index.php?game=z2&limit=

Anyways, something even more strongly linking the two. Dinosaur bob 13:33, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

isn't there any pictures of the actual fight with volgera instead of artwork Zanramon

I have to admit that I don't believe the manga, but kind of wish it were true. I wish link were from Calatia, and would like to believe that majora was killed by a musician...but i really don't think its true.--Claire 13:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Merge Discussion

The discussion whether to merge this article with Barba has begun on that page's talk page- we're looking for a consensus vote, either pro- or anti-merge, here. So, got merge templates up, and making it known on Volvagia's talk page as well. Dinosaur bob 00:33, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I heard that it's original Japanese name was Volvagia, and/or that it was changed to such in the Collector's Edition version of AoL. Is this true? Dinosaur bob 16:10, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

I just found the source for the above rumor- Barba's Japanese name is Barubajia, while Volvagia's is Varubajia. Japanese names for AOL's enemies found here: http://bestiary.zeldalegends.net/index.php?game=z2&limit=

Thanks for your time! Dinosaur bob 13:30, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Think we should merge this article with the Volvagia one?

As far as I'm concerned, they're still completely separate entities. Although the name-link is a compelling one, it doesn't prove that they are one and the same. Also, if they were to merge, the title would have to be either Barubajia or Varubajia, which wouldn't sit well with me. Anyone else's thoughts?--Adam 15:43, 19 November 2007 (EST)

...Japanese does not have the sound "V". They have exactly the same japanese name - Barubajia. This has been translated in America most recently to Volvagia, and was corrected as such for the re-release of TAoL. They are both serpentine lava dragons.

What more do you need?KrytenKoro 15:50, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Someone else's view on it. I'm not the arbiter of all that's right, nor would I claim to be so. But nor are you. Consensus is needed. --Adam 16:44, 19 November 2007 (EST)

I'm pro merge and having the article named Volvagia (as "Barba" obviously is a less correct translation (unless one would look at the number of letters)). I was already thinking of suggesting that when adding the name-comparision parts. But before I support such a merge, I'd like to know where I can find prove of the renaming, KrytenKoro. Where is the renaming of Barba written/stated. IfIHaveTo 06:42, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Pro-merge here, I think their the same, why have two different articles?--Kasei 01:05, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to get up the 'merge' templates? Doing that on this article and Volvagia's would let people know it's under debate... but I can't remember how to do it, nor does the help section help AT ALL. -_-; Dinosaur bob 00:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Found it at last- merge templates up, and let the discussion commence! ;) Dinosaur bob 00:31, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Another pro-merge. Different way of writing their names, same boss. And like KrytenKoro mentioned, its name has been corrected for the re-release of TAoL, so...why not merge them? Dany36 01:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge these. I never even knew this boss by the name Barba. It has always been Volvagia. --Yumil 17:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, so far it looks like we're unanimously pro-merge. Anyone know how to make it so? *coughnevermergedanarticlebeforecough* Dinosaur bob 19:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The merge is done, and since few users are aware of how to get to a redirect page discussion, I figured to bring the discussion here. As there have been questions on why these two pages were merged. On a side note, I want to say that we should be cautious about merging pages based on their Japanese names. This is an English language wiki. But I'm not against this nor Hiploop/Helmasaur being merged as the enemies are overall the same. User:Axiomist/sig 03:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm bringing this discussion back up because ultimately the merging of these articles is unjustified. The merge was based off the similarities in appearance and the same Japanese name. While of course on a normal basis I'd say that's sufficiency evidence, however our current policy is that then English text is canon over the Japanese text, seeing as it is an English wiki. So I think the two articles should be unmerged, otherwise a change in policy is in order.User:Steven/sig 22:35, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I would like to bring up the merge again because of the similarities and the same exact name in Japanese. What I don't get is that this also befell Arrgus when it was split into Arrgus and "Wart" which was its Japanese name to beging with. --Hero of Termina (talk) 01:15, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

We go with the English canon, so if they have different names, then they should have different pages. - Chuck * ^(Talk) 03:31, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Actually, they don't have the same name. I believe that was a bit of a lie from Dinosaur bob. They have similar names, but they're not the same. Still, English canon trumps Japanese nomenclature. - Tony^{T S C} 04:17, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Except English canon does dictate here, according to the Nintendo Power Collector's Edition Player's Guide, the most recent release of Zelda II, outside of the VC. The name they refer to both the OoT Dragon and the AoL Dragon is the same: Volvagia. --Hero of Termina (talk) 20:08, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Please provide a detailed source. - Tony^{T S C} 16:00, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Japanese Boss Title

The other Ocarina of Time boss pages have their titles with their Japanese names. Could someone add Volvagia's Japanese title to the page? Pokemega32 01:54, 21 November 2011 (EST)

Hyrule Historia

I've seen it reported (but not seen the text myself) that the Hystoria says that Volvagia is Valoo's ancestor...which also implies that Volvagia is also a Spirit.KrytenKoro 00:22, 7 February 2012 (EST)

Then Volvagia is male. I was right. But I didn't know that Volvagia was so much special, I mean, Zoras transfored into Ritos, Kokiris have turned into Koroks, but Volvagia's successor is Valoo? Then yes, he has a spirit.--Prince Ludwig 07:30, 8 February 2012 (EST)

Volvugia vs Volvagia

Ok, how is something written Vol-VA-gia supposed to be pronounced Vol-VU-gia? Last time I checked VA was not pronounced VU in any written word in English or Japanese

As for the Japanese pronunciation, it's listed in the zeldalegend bestiary (http://bestiary.zeldalegends.net/index.php?game=z2&limit=) as VARUBAJIA, meaning the katakana should read as ヴァルバギア. In which case that would still not explain where the Vu comes from, as the only U sound comes from the ru which forms the single L.

Pharap 16:34, 12 February 2012 (EST)

You're confusing a u in phonetic respell for making an "oo" sound. The phonetic spelling of Volvagia, vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ɑː, taken from the Japanese pronunciation (following the IPA respell pronunciation key) is more-or-less properly respelled as vol-VU-gee-ah. ヴァルバジア would roughly translate (based on word stress) to vɑ ruː bʌ dʒi ʌ, which would then, phonetically, read as Vah-roo-bu-gee-u. Now, in English, this would instead read as it's currently written, vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ɑː (バ produces the ʌ sound in context, resulting in the "u"). It's confusing, but there really is no error. - Tony^{T S C} 17:20, 12 February 2012 (EST)

That...doesn't sound right. -a kana are usually pronounced with an /ɑː/, not a /ʌ/. If you search バギアWWWJDIC, it even has a sound file so that you can hear it; the "vag" is pronounced nearly like "dog", not "dug".KrytenKoro 11:22, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Firstly, after checking the bestiary, they have it written as varubajia, which would be ヴァルバジア, not ヴァルバギア. I'm surprised I didn't realise sooner, but even more surprised nobody else did. Anyway, best comparison, ギア(gi-a) is the way the Japanese pronounce gear, so if you take that logic and use the a from gi-a and apply it to the other a sounds in varubajia then it makes sense to use and an and not a u. Also to note, the Japanese do not have a u sound as in bug or bus, nor does their a sound sound like such. Whichever way you look at it, the u sound doesn't make sense. Pharap 15:29, 13 February 2012 (EST)

@KrytenKoro: This is where word stress comes into play. A person reading ヴァルバギア wouldn't place the same amount of stress on the バ as the ヴァ (whereas バジア alone would indeed pronounce the /ɑː/ sound, reading as /bɑː dʒiː ɑː/. Without the forced stress, the "a" sounds more akin to a light ʌ (ə) sound (Google Translate has a feature that reads out the Katakana, listen for yourself). - Tony^{T S C} 20:40, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Not even stress would change the reading of an a into a u. So I'm saying we change the u back into an a. Who agrees, who disagrees? If you type ヴァルバジア into google translate, it does actually show there are no U sounds. Admittedly the English version uses Vol instead of Val, making it slightly different, but the point is that The va in volvagia should remain va and not vu. Pharap 20:57, 13 February 2012 (EST)

Firstly, I suggest you familiarize yourself with our etiquette standards, as you were behaving rudely (prior to revising your post). Each individual editor brings their own level of expertise, so you should excuse any errors they may make. Remember: we're only human.

Secondly, your point is wrong as Volvagia's Japanese name is indeed ヴァルバジア (Varubajia). Now for your recent revision of your argument, I believe you're still fixed on the thought that the "u" has anything to do with how the Katakana is written. I'm strictly speaking of how the word stress affects how it sounds once enunciated. If you could link to a video of a fluent Japanese speaker proving otherwise, then I would reconsider. In any case, I still disagree with you, as I believe my point still stands. - Tony^{T S C} 00:17, 14 February 2012 (EST)

Yes, I revised my post for several reasons, and I was being rude to myself as well since I implied that I also had been stupid enough to not notice that I had been using what I believed to be the wrong Katakana. Also, if you look at the revision summary, it states that I changed it because I saw that what I had put about the first two katakana was wrong and thus the comment was irrelevant.

I found a video of a Japanese person pronouncing volvagia, shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1e45--YqCU at 36 seconds the player clearly reads the boss's name, ヴァルバジア. If you listen closely, both A sounds are pronounced the same way, as the short A in Japanese, not like an uh sound.

Pharap 17:55, 20 February 2012 (EST)

I disagree and I know a thing or two about japanese. It's right how Pakkun explained it. The A in バ is a short one, so /ʌ/ is right. If you would use vol-VAA-gee-ah(/vɒl ˈvɑ dʒiː ɑː/) then the katakana equivalent would be ヴァルバージア. The ー showing that the A in バ is a long one and thus pronounced using /ɑː/. However, you could maybe argue about the ah at the end of vol-VU-gee-ah. All vocals in japanese are usually short unless otherwise declared and so the ア at the end would be short as well giving us vol-VU-gee-U (/vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ʌː/). Of course this would sound pretty unusual for an english speaking person. Bakeneko 00:28, 14 February 2012 (EST)

I also know about Japanese. Writing Va instead of Vu would make more sense as it would be simpler to understand, more representative of the actual sound and would be the right length as it would be va as opposed to vah. Writing it as vol-VU-gee-U implies the use of the U in bug, which the sound isn't. I know about the long A sounds and short A sounds in Japanese, but they don't have an uh sound (as in bug).

Pharap 17:55, 20 February 2012 (EST)

I've got to say, I'm pretty unfamiliar with the argument of ば being pronounced as "bʌ". If you check "ばじ" in the wwwjdic, you can hear several different words being pronounced with the target phoneme. While the vowel sound is pretty short, and easily hearable with "ʌ" (the reason why ʌ words are often written in Japanese with -a kana), if you listen carefully it is still discernable as "ɑː".

...I think at this point that instead of arguing between several novice or even amateur nihongophiles, we maybe ask an actual linguist? If we all agree to that, would someone put in a ticket at the languages helpdesk at wikipedia, or even better, a japanese linguistics forum?KrytenKoro 18:12, 20 February 2012 (EST)

Well, language is not math. Not everything is logical and there are alot of exceptions. When people say that vocals in japanese are usually short unless it's otherwise declared than this doesn't mean that this is always the case. "ばじ" may be good example for that, although "ばじ" itself is not a word but a part of one. If you look on wwwjdic for the word 罰 (ばち) which means punishment you will see the same thing. However you have to be careful to argue with audio clips provided by a site who tries to teach people a language. You can't tell if the audio samples really present a natural pronunciation made by a native speaker. Often the pronounciation is overly clear and not a good representation. Heres an example. If you look for　罰 (ばつ)　which also means punishment you will again hear a longer A than usual and you will clearly hear the "tsu" at the end which is also unusual. A native speaker would most likely spell that /bʌts/ or to put it more simply, it would almost sound like an english person saying "butts". I know it for sure because I've heard it several times in Animes for example. Now on the other hand to give you another example, when you look on wwwjdic for 馬鹿 (ばか) which means fool and if you listen to the audio example for that, then the first part sounds very much like "bug" in english. So what do you do now?

Also, you have to careful with katakana words which represent imported words from english. The japanese always try to get the pronounciation as close as possible to their english original, although the are written different when using "romaji". So those aren't reliable for natural japanese pronounciation. Bakeneko 02:08, 21 February 2012 (EST)

Right. That's why I think we should ask someone who has studied Japanese linguistics professionally, rather than for us to keep basically philosophizing about it when none of us our linguists; we're just anime fans, or studied Nihongo in school.KrytenKoro 15:50, 22 February 2012 (EST)

Soooo...should I just put the ɑː back so that you guys will engage in this conversation? It's been over a month.KrytenKoro 13:27, 24 March 2012 (EDT)

Breath of the Wild

While there is no confirmation, and this is not a request for editing, I thought I'd give a heads up that the latest Japanese trailer showed a field boss with an utterly massive field boss resembling Volvagia. Again, just a heads up, so people can be looking out for any official confirmation.Mosaica (talk) 23:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Although the boss may resemble Volvagia, it does not mean that the boss is in fact Volvagia unless it is explicitly named as such. It should not be added to this page unless it does have that name. - Midoro ^{(T C)} 23:09, 20 February 2017 (UTC)