Talk:Shield

Hm. I seem to remember it being stated clearly in The Minish Cap, multiple times, that the Minish 'World' is a separate realm from Hyrule, and that some Minish simply choose to live in the human world. I'd like to request revision or deletion of the article; preferably revision, though. --Protera 09:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I take it you're referring to statements such as:

"The elemental sanctuary exists between the human world and the Minish world. Here, let me explain with a little example: in a ham sandwich... the elemental sanctuary would be the ham between the two slices of bread!" — Ezlo (The Minish Cap)

As opposed to what's stated in the article:

"The term does not imply a seperate world as the Minish are in fact in Hyrule. It merely refers to the shrunken perspective of the Minish. "

It seems that once contradcts the other, but from the in-game text, it never seems to be made entirely clear what the nature of the Minish World is. I'd agree that the article be revised to reflect this uncertain nature. User:Adam/sig 10:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how this could be a seperate page in itself. As already stated, the "Minish World" is basically just Hyrule from the perspective of the Minish. Everything it has in it is already on the Minish Cap pages (game, and/or item.) Therefore, I don't think the wiki needs this. If the information is not on the Minish Cap page (which ever one it should go to), then I say the information gets moved, and the page gets deleted. User:Austin/sig 19:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

There's an article for the separate realm the Minish came from: Picori World. Makar Rocks 20:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, because that is a separate realm. Hyrule, and the "Minish World" are not separate realms. User:Austin/sig 01:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I know. I was pointing out that there is already an article about what Protera and Adam were talking about. --Makar Rocks 04:10, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's basically just Hyrule, but I don't see the pages being eliminated. However the two should be merged, I think it's just a matter of the correct name from here. User:Axiomist/sig 02:57, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Very confusing. The article should probably say something about the confusing nature of the Minish/Picori world. Also, they should be merged. Although, that might generate more confusion... --Ionizer 10:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Lets figure something out with these tiny articles, its been three months! I support the merge, but the resulting article name would be the only question... like Lesser Worlds, Mini-Worlds, something similar - neither article should be deleted. There should just be clear markers of what the Picori World is in comparison to that of the Minish in one article. User:Cipriano 119/sig 02:22, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Well one of these get to be a page and 2 get to be a redirect. We just need a handful of quotes to determine which is the official name. User:Axiomist/sig 17:30, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't realize we had a page for this particular place, but I believe the proper term according to the game I believe is the "Minish Realm". I don't remember exactly where it is said in the game, but I am certain I remember it being called that within the game at some point, it's just been a while since I've played that particular game. Link87 17:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

No big deal, I'm sure there's a quote for each of the terms. :p User:Axiomist/sig 17:55, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe either Ezlo or Potho call it the "Minish Realm" in the game, I'd have to play it through again to know which or to see the quotes from the game to know which one said it. Link87 18:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

The big 'G' says:

Results 1 - 10 of about 151 for "picori world"

Results 1 - 10 of about 313 for "minish realm"

Results 1 - 10 of about 4,340 for "minish world"

If we were to go on that alone, it would be "Minish World". Not very scientific, I know. User:Petenu/sig 09:06, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

The proper term in the game though is the "Minish Realm", and as we're an encyclopedia, we need to follow the proper name, not what everyone thinks it might be. Searches on google may come from people who don't follow the games enough to know the proper title. Link87 15:13, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Is this file a reliable source? If so, we're looking at "Minish World", I think. User:Petenu/sig 15:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

In the game, it is called "Minish Realm" at some point. I'd have to see the text dump to see who says it, but the game is the one thing that trumps other sources. There is also a difference between the "Minish Realm" and the "Minish World", the "Minish World" could refer to Hyrule as it is viewed by the Minish while the "Minish Realm" is their actual homeland that is separate from Hyrule. That's how I've always viewed it ever since the game's release in 2005. That source is also European, that is not the American text, and on here we go by the American text of the game. Link87 15:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Text dumps. Is it possible that your memory is deceiving you? User:Petenu/sig 15:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I highly doubt it, as I tend to remember things to the word to be honest. Ezlo at one point says "Welcome to the world through the eyes of the Minish", hence the term "Minish World" for Hyrule through their eyes. But at some point in the game, their actual homeland is referred to as the "Minish Realm", I'm almost 100% positive on that. Link87 15:28, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

You asked for a text dump, I showed you a text dump. If you believe that the text dump is inaccurate then you should take that up with the person who extracted it. User:Petenu/sig 15:31, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't have time to run through the whole thing right now as I'm at work, and I will eventually. But I stand by the fact that it is called the "Minish Realm", and the fact that even the other wiki acknowledges that is another point of proof that it is. So I shall go through and find the exact quote that references it as that, but it's not just "Minish World" as far as I'm aware. I also don't see you proving that their homeland is referred to as the "Minish World" either, where is the exact quote referencing that separate place under that name? Link87 15:32, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I searched for the word "realm" in the file. There are four occurrences. One, it is clear from context, refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish. One refers to the Elemental Sanctuary. One refers to the realm of Hyrule. One is a witticism provided by one of the Blade Brothers ("Your training must continue within the realm of your MIND..."). Conversely, the string "Minish World" occurs in "The elemental sanctuary exists between the human world and the Minish world." and "The sanctuary is a strange place that borders the human and Minish worlds." and "The sanctuary is a strange realm, trapped between two worlds. It is the bridge between the Minish world and the human world." and "The portal linking us to the Minish world opens only once every 100 years.". It also occurs in a couple of other places where it refers to Hyrule-through-the-eyes-of-the-Minish. User:Petenu/sig 15:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

The "Minish World" is Hyrule through the eyes of the Minish, and the "Minish Realm" refers to their actual homeland, as I stated previously. The terms "world" and "realm" are also synonymous with each other at times, but the proper name of their actual homeland is the "Minish Realm". That is how the two are distinguished by the community and the game developers. That is why I propose keeping the two separate so we have one referring to Hyrule through their eyes and the other as their homeland. Link87 16:03, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I've shown you four quotes where "Minish World" is used to refer to their homeland. Please show me 1 quote where "Minish Realm" is used for that purpose. User:Petenu/sig 16:18, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

You've shown me no quote that gives the name of their homeland to be the "Minish World", you've shown me four quotes that only use the word "world" in general, not as a title, and from a text dump that is almost certainly incomplete as none can be guaranteed to have every single quote from an entire game, though they can get a good number of them. I will have to replay the game most likely to know exactly who and where it was specifically called the "Minish Realm", but I am certain that it was, just as certain as I was that the portal was called the "Minish Door". For your information as well, take a look at this: <http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Minish_Realm>. Now why would another entire wiki be calling it "Minish Realm" if the term had never been heard of?? Link87 16:23, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Okay Chris, you're right, it's Minish Realm. User:Petenu/sig 16:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Did you happen to find the quote already that says it? Or do I need to replay the game to learn exactly who said it? It may have been Ezlo, Potho, or the storyteller at the Picori Festival. I remember that it was someone that either was talking about the history of the Minish or that was from the Minish Realm itself. I genuinely want to know what it was myself, because I remember hearing it but I just can't remember who exactly because it's been so long since I played TMC. Link87 16:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikia isn't exactly a reliable source, they have many many fanon titled articles. I checked the game manual, there was a reference to world but not Minish/Picori World as a title. I don't think I've ever heard of it being called a separate realm, nor do the characteristics of it fit much. But I'll give it time to see what you can find. User:Axiomist/sig 03:27, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm willing to move the page to "Minish World" until we have a quote in hand that says otherwise, but I know one exits someplace, and I'll kick myself when I come across it again over the holiday season when I actually have the time to play the game again after a two-year long reprieve from that game. Link87 08:29, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Text dumps are your friend. Ezlo calls it the Minish World numerous times in the game, but the phrase "Minish Realm" does not exist at all. Ganondorfdude11 08:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I remain skeptical of anything but the game. I just have gut feeling I've seen an official title for the place that stated it to be "Minish Realm", while in reality no true capitalized title of "Minish World" exists by the same token at present. The use of the word "world" is used as a noun, not a title, in the quotes featured in this text dump. No matter, I am willing to go with the current setup until such time that we have confirmation of the true title, which is all I'm really interested in. Link87 23:10, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Yea, Chris, I agree with that, though it does seem a bit preposterous to replay an entire game just to look for a suitable article title. Either title works, to be honest, and conveys a similar enough message, especially since now they are both included in the article. So lets just roll with it! User:Cipriano 119/sig 21:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I know Cip, but I've been meaning to replay it anyway, though it'll probably be sometime over the holidays after Spirit Tracks. But as you said, both are included in the article now, so that's that really. I agree we should just leave it as it is, b/c it addresses both names and establishes that no official title has at present been noted. Link87 22:01, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe I found what you were looking for, Chris. Using this site here which is by far the most comprehensive text dump on The Minish Cap I have seen, the realm of the Minish is referred to once as the world of the Minish (I placed it as a reference in the article already), but just like "Minish World", it is also not spoken of as "Minish Realm", flat out and frank like you had wished. Hence, their placement in the article should stay shared, since neither is explicitly sourced as a direct name. =) User:Cipriano 119/sig 05:08, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I knew it, I knew it! I knew I'd seen it referred to in that manner, even if not a direct name I knew I had seen the actual plane from which they came referred to as a "realm". Where exactly does it say that quote occurs within the game?? I want to know, so I can slap my forehead and finally remember where it occurred. Lol. But seriously, I do want to know where it was in the game so I won't forget it later on. Thanks a bunch Cip. Link87 10:36, 2 December 2009 (UTC)