Talk:Split Timeline

Whilst I know most people these days agree on the split timeline theory, I've never seen any major agreement on this particular arrangement of games, and I think it should either be removed or listed with other timeline theories on the Timeline Theory page. Happyjoe5 20:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Although the main part of the article describing what the Split Timeline is should stay, the stuff about the order that the other games happen in should go.--ShutUpNavi 20:34, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Working Split Timeline Theory
Submitted by Philip Dorlin on 09/08/10 

I would like to submit my version of the Split Timeline Theory. If anyone can find fault with it please just add it as a question in the Problems & Solutions section.

Child Timeline

Skyward Sword (SS) - Ocarina of Time (OoT) - Majoras Mask (MM) - Twilight Princess (TP)

Minish Cap (MC) - Four Swords (FS) - Four Swords Adventures (FSA)

Legend of Zelda (LoZ) - Adventure of Link (AoL)

Oracle of Seasons (OS) - Oracle of Ages (OA)

A Link to the Past (ALttP) - Links Awakening (LA)

Adult Timeline

Skyward Sword (SS) - Ocarina of Time (OoT) - Wind Waker (WW) - Phantom Hourglas (PH) - Spirit Tracks (ST)

Linking Child Timeline Games

1) Minish Cap must be followed by Four Swords, then Four Swords Adventures as Vaati makes his debut with origin story in Minish Cap, he is the villain of Four Swords and then killed in Four Swords Adventures.

2) In Four Swords Adventure Ganondorf becomes Ganon permanently with the Trident. He posesses the Trident in A Link to the Past which is officially stated as being followed by Links Awakening. He wields it in Legend of Zelda which is also officially stated as being followed by Adventure of Link. He also uses it in the Oracle games which can happen in either order. This places the Minish Cap series before LoZ, the Oracle Series, and ALttP.

3) Since Twinrova are alive in the Oracle Series it must occur in the Child Timeline as they are killed in the Adult Timeline. With Ganon also wielding the Trident as stated above that places the Minish Cap Series, LoZ, and ALttP in the Child Timeline.

4) With reason 1 stating that the Minish Cap Series starts before the games LoZ, ALttP, and the Oracle Series. And reason 2 states that with Twinrova alive these games must also take place in the Child Timeline. That puts the Minish Cap Series after Twilight Princess. As every appearence of Ganondorf afterwards is as Ganon, who appears chronologically at the end of the Minish Cap series.

5) ALttP must be at the end of the Child Timeline because the Sacred Realm is restored to its former glory and Link is the new master of all the Triforce. And as a side note the Master Sword is said to never be used again.

6) In the Oracle Series Twinrova attempt to revive Ganon. Since reason 4 places ALttP second to last and is only one of two games in the Child Timeline to mention Ganon as killed. It must come after Adventure of Link since it is the direct sequel to Legend of Zelda the only other game to state Ganon as killed.

7) Skyward Sword has been stated as a prequel to Ocarina of Time placing it before any other game in both timelines. Ocarina of Time then follows, with the Twilight Princess (Backstory) of Ganondorfs fate possibly happening either before, after or at the same time as Majora's Mask which still stars the same Link from Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess is then stated as following Majora's Mask many hundreds of years later in the Child Timeline. This is also the last appearence of Ganondorf before he becomes Ganon with the Trident.

Linking the Adult Timeline

1) As stated Skyword Sword is a prequel to Ocarina of Time placing it at the start.

2) Wind Waker is to follow as there is no Hero of Time as he was sent back to his childhood creating the Adult Timeline were he would not exist to save Hyrule.

3) Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks follow after, as officially stated.

Problems & Solutions

Q. How does Ganon go from his imprisonment in the Four Sword in FSA to leading an army in LoZ.

A. It may be explained in a future installment as Ganon is known to escape his prisons and even cheat death.

Q. In ALttP Ganon is sealed in the Dark World but in the Child Timeline he is never sealed in the Sacred Realm.

A. As it is at the end of the Child Timeline ALttP may by this point have a muddled history. There is mention of an Imprisoning War and Ganon being sealed away in the sacred realm. No such imprisonment exists except in the Adult Timeline which he escapes from. There is a similar story in Twilight Princess were he leads an army, is captured and sealed away in another realm by the Ancient Sages.

Q. If Ganon is killed in LoZ why is he alive by ALttP.

A. Despite his death in LoZ he is nearly revived in AoL a direct sequel. And in my timeline version once more by Twinrova albeit partially sucessfully. So he may in a future game or later time be completely revived.

Theories

Ganondorf in Twilight Princess upon death has his spirit sealed in the Trident. He is then either released into a new body by another Gerudo male called Ganondorf, the body then corrupted by the spirit of the original Ganondorf becomes Ganon. Or that same Gerudo claims Ganondorfs powers and as a result his Ganon form. This explains the death in Twilight Princess as enough time would then pass for a new Gerudo male to be born, and explain why the spirit within the trident corrupts the Gerudo into Ganon.

The Ancient Sages are the power for the Adult Timeline Seven Sages and the Child Timeline Wise Men and Maidens. The Ancient Sages grant their power to seven people who need it. From there it is passed down to their descendants. This theory works on the basis that either the Ancient Sages granted their power to seven Hylians who would become the Seven Wise Men, either after Twilight Princess which has a similar kind of Imprisoning War as mentioned in ALttP. Or the Seven Wise Men were granted their power in a future Imprisoning War in which Ganon, not Ganondorf is stated in ALttP as being sealed into the Sacred Realm. This would work as the Wise Men and Maidens in ALttP are all Hylians, and the the Imprisoning War mentioned in ALttP is fought between Ganon's Army and the Knight's of Hyrule aka the (Hylian Knights). The other thing to mention is that besides the number seven for all the groups and with the exception of the Maidens, Ganon and/or Ganondorf has been sealed away somewhere by the Seven Sages, the Ancient Sages and the Seven Wise Men. It should be noted that even though the Maidens do not seal Ganon away they can be used by Agahnim to break the seal holding him.

As for the Sages of Earth and Wind in Wind Waker they are Sages of the Master Sword and possess only the ability to keep the Master Sword in working order. All other sages in the Zelda series are either powerless or possess an explanation for their powers.

I unfortunately and regretably cannot explain the forever changing geography of Hyrule. Despite my best attempts the only solution I can provide is that all Zelda games take place in similar yet alternate realities unless the land corellates to the previous game either in geography or story i.e. LoZ to AoL, or WW to ST.

End of Theory

Anon message
This message was left via problem report by 74.249.201.29 on 10-Dec-07 14:26 UTC

''There is a discrepancy on this page. Ganon would not have had the power of the Triforce of Power in the Child Timeline because he didn't get it until Link pulled the Master Sword from the Temple of Time.''

At the end of Ocarina of Time, Young Link's hand glows with the Triforce of Courage, showing that he has the triforce without pulling the Master Sword. The events in OoT were meant to happen (Ganondorf was destined to steal the triforce), so when Link didn't pull the Master Sword, the gods gave Ganon, Link, and Zelda their Triforces. This is the "divine prank" the sages refer to in Twilight Princess.

This doesn't make any sense to me. For one things people's hands have been known to glow with the Triforce emblem when they don't actually have a piece. I just looked at the ending and Zelda's hand is NOT glowing with a Triforce emblem. What happened at the timeline split is unclear, and hard to reconcile with the rest of the timeline. I go into it at length on my [Talk Page] --Fierce Deku (talk) 04:10, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Minority Report
Wouldn't it be kinda like Minority Report? Link experienced the one timeline, in which Ganondorf ruled for seven years and then was defeated, then Link was sent back. So, when he told Hyrule about what Ganon would do, kinda like Minority Report, he saw that that would happen in the future unless stopped, but they stopped it so it never happened. Sure, now that is has been stopped, it won't happen, but it still would have happened. One timeline, because the other branch was stopped from happening. so, instead of a split, with the two timelines happening simultaneously, wouldn't there just be the one? Switch-track kinda thing? Aeronflux 20:20, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

A Link to the Past
Isn't A Link to the Past here as well, after Twilight Princess? I'm not sure but i remember it was with the seven maidens. 99.224.177.114 22:25, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Spirit Tracks
Why is there still speculation about Spirit Tracks place in the timeline on the article when we now know it'll be a sequal to Phantom Hourglass? Yowuza yadderhouse | meh 19:04, November 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't know that personally, it's just recent information I had from quite a reliable source that it was unconfirmed, I just used it to fill the gap until someone had decent information.--LunaLink December 6, 2009

Majora's Mask
The Timeline Theory is canon. Okay. And we can possibly rule out the same effect happening in Oracle of Ages, because we are using the power of the Oracle of Ages - conceivably, she can actually reroute time, and not just herself.

But there is absolutely no reason why the mechanics of split timeline wouldn't apply to Majora's Mask. Even if we use the possibility of beating Majora in only two 3-day sets, there is still at least two timelines (we can ignore any effects from Ocarina, because this is already a different dimension) - one in which Link does nothing but stop Majora, and one in which everyone dies, while Link teleports out.

This should be mentioned in the article, at least in trivia. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:28, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Or, it could be due to Zelda and Zelda alone. While Link could easily have lived his seven years as a child, and safely changed the future as he had done before and continued to do in Majora's Mask or Oracle of Ages, the semi-divine Triforce had been the thing that kept him in the Temple of Light for seven years. As a gesture of compassion, Zelda went against the Triforce itself, and that could be what broke time. It certainly fits with the tendency of this Zelda's plans to do more harm than good - she makes an emotional decision without thinking it fully through, and so instead of letting Link fully save Hyrule as we know he should be able to do, she damns one version of Hyrule for the sake of his comfort.128.210.26.20 21:54, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

~Wind Waker makes a huge reference to the Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask storyline. I can see Ocarina of Time's storyline being referenced, but if Majora's mask occurred during the "Young Link Timeline" rather than the Adult one, like Wind Waker, then why would Majora's Mask be mentioned? The piece of text in question is spoken by the King of Red Lions I think after the events at the Tower of the Gods and in Hyrule. He states that the Hero of Time had the Triforce of Courage, but when he left Hyrule to go on a separate journey, he was separated from the elements that made him the hero. Unless I'm thinking of some other game, this is a reference to Majora's Mask, isn't it?Jagtarro (talk) 10:04, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Masterlink03: I agree with Jagtarro there... that it's pretty big of a reference as well as how Tingle was introduced in Majora's Mask..

Hehe
I consider calling it the "Split Timeline Theory" to be using the word like in scientific theory. A scientific theory is not a guess (that would be a hypothesis), but a larger idea supported by a large body of scientific evidence that has come to be accepted. It's like the Theory of Evolution or the Theory of Gravity. With that meaning of the word you call it a theory even though it's known to be true.--Fierce Deku (talk) 04:59, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Spirit Tracks Get's rid of frustration.
Since Spirit Tracks realease, I think that a new timeline can be made. Here it is:

Minish Cap to Ocarina Of Time, then the timeline splits.

Adult Timeline: Wind Waker to Phantom Hourglass to Spirit Tracks to Link to the Past to Four Swords to Four Swords Adventure to Link's Awakening.

Child Timeline: Majora's Mask to Twilight Princess to Legend of Zelda to Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link to Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons.

If you have any questions, ask on this page.

This isnt the place for timeline theories. If you want you can make a forum Oni Dark Link 00:35, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Masterink03: TINGLE They put Majora's Mask not with Twilight Princess!!! Tingle wouldn't have been introduced to link unless he went to Termina! if you say no... explain how Link could have met tingle in the split timeline theory?

Majora's with Wind Waker:
How could have tingle not been introduced to Link then later put in Wind Waker if Majora's Mask did not occur
 * How is Tingle alive for over 100 years, and in a whole different dimension? - McGillivray  227  22:19, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Masterlink03:The over 100 years... I don't know for sure... but in a different dimension highly unlikely... in the theory's Majora's mask is on the Twilight Princess side...maybe he had sons? but still if Link didn't bump into him in Majora's Mask, he probably wouldn't have recognized him Wind Waker... Masterlink03: I agree with the other notes up as well... I want to edit the whole thing completely as well
 * Tingle now lives over 100 years, moves to another dimension, and can recognize a different person? - McGillivray  227  22:39, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Masterlink03: thats what the split timeline theorists' are pointing out to me...
 * Then the split timeline theorists are pointing a few incorrect things to you. - McGillivray  227  23:00, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

Masterlink03: more of showing the reason they should remove that arrangement of theory...

This is an old thread of discussion and probably already got resolved elsewhere, but I'm responding to it anyway:

What? If I'm reading this, people are assuming that the Tingle from Wind Waker is the same one from Majora's Mask. You guy's, there are many different "copies" of many Zelda Characters. There are alternate versions of Hylians that exist in Termina, and also many people have descendants or perhaps reincarnations of themselves who look just like them and have the same name and characteristics. There are multiple Zeldas, Links, Malons, Anjus, and TINGLES. The Tingle in Wind Waker is either the descendant or some kind of reincarnation of the Majora's Mask Tingle or his potential Hylian counterpart. If he recognizes Link in Wind Waker, it's because he's been to Outset Island, saw a drawing of the Hero of Time who Link looks like, or maybe Tingle is just crazy (there's plenty of evidence for that already). The Tingle from Majora's Mask did not go to Hyrule then live hundreds of years and meet Wind Waker Link. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this but it seems like people were thinking that he did.--Fierce Deku (talk) 05:14, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

---Phantom Ganon Still Alive---
I'm speaking of the Phantom Ganon which was sealed in between dimensions in Ocarina of Time. Seeing as he was banished there before Link had a chance to alter history in the Split Timeline theory, wouldn't he still exist in both the "Child" and "Adult" timelines? I've always thought that the space between dimensions, or realms of existence if you would, was simply an endless void where nothing existed, including time. Hence it could not be changed to where he was never created. What do you guys think?

(70.88.143.49 05:09, July 30, 2010 (UTC))

Adult Timeline?
At the end of Ocarina of Time, Link returns to the past having knowledge of future events and explains them to child princess Zelda, thereby thwarting Ganondorf's plans, preventing the "future" (as Link witnessed it) from ever occurring. For all intensive purposes, the entire adult segment of the game could easily have been spelled out as an introduction with the game essentially ending when Link first meets Zelda. There is no "timeline split". What future that would have been simply disappears (or merges with) and the only timeline that follows thereafter goes straight into Majora's Mask. I hope someone with an understanding of X Y Z W coordination can realize that "time" and "location" are completely different things. In fact, to completely entertain the idea of an alternate timeline, Link would have to originally travel to the past, from the future (as exists in most stories involving Time Travel) rather than to the future, from the past.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I simply can't believe anyone who has played the game all the way through to the final end screen would think that there are two distinctly different "locations" separated from a single length of time where either Link or anyone/anything else could exist exactly as the player witnessed it following Ganandorf's reign.

The second most logical explanation that could occur is during the events of the ending of OoT, when Link returns as a child to 'meet' princess Zelda for the first time. It would require only that despite what Link says (Link does speak in Ocarina of Time, he just doesn't have a word bubble or written dialogue for the player to read. This is easily proven during this exact scene when Zelda ask's for Link's name, then learns of his name after a short pause. Link could essentially say anything with the player's only hint's being the response of another character), the future still continues. Perhaps in the sense that even though Zelda is told of Ganondorf's plans, she may not have been quick enough to act so that Ganondorf end's up escaping, chasing Zelda and Impa on horse. Regardless of how it happens, but simply entertaining the idea that the end of OoT simply loops right back into Link's first meeting with Zelda, then NO timeline is developed. At all. It just becomes an infinite loop, enclosed and entirely separate from any other Zelda.

I hope a moderator or admin could clear this up from the official page. (75.142.233.4 12:02, May 12, 2011 (UTC))


 * First of all, BTW, the term is "intents and purposes". Secondly, if there was no timeline split, then how can one explain the differences between what took place in The Wind Waker (Hyrule being flooded and replaced by the Great Sea, Ganondorf being let loose from his imprisonment at the end of Ocarina Of Time) and what took place in Twilight Princess (Hyrule remains unflooded, Ganondorf sent to the Twilight world by the Ancient Sages)? Thirdly, if there was an infinite loop, then how is child Link able to live on to the events that took place in Majora's Mask? (VicGeorge2K9 (talk) 12:04, May 12, 2011 (UTC))