Zeldapedia:Temple of Courage



Welcome to the Temple of Courage, where various characters from the The Legend of Zelda series battle out on a semi-weekly basis! You, the people, are the deciding factors in these matches. Functionally, all of these battles are popularity contests and not "battles" as such. For instance, in a boss vs. boss fight, we suggest that you vote for the one you like the most rather than whether or not one enemy would beat another in a legit fight. This is only a suggestion, though.

You can suggest a fight or vote or comment on others on the suggestions sub-article.

Rules

 * You may vote for your favorite or who you think would win in a competition between the two combatants that week.
 * You may only vote once.
 * If you are a user, please include your vote in the user section. If you are not a user, please include your vote in the anonymous section. This section can also be used for users who wish to stay anonymous. However, any votes put in the anonymous sections will only count as a half vote.
 * When a new fight is created (the process should take no longer than a week, give or take a couple of days), the votes from the last fight will be totaled and winner decided.
 * Please sign your vote (unless you want to be counted as an anonymous vote) with a link to your username in front of your eventual voting text.
 * Don't try to rig the votes by entering multiple votes; these pages are regularly patrolled and you WILL face consequences if you are caught.
 * Please don't use talk templates.

Week 38: Dead Hand vs. ReDead Knight
{| style ="width: 100%;" size=5>Winner! "Undecided" IT'S TIME! Yessir, LLLLAAAAAAAAAAAADIIIIIIIIIESSSSSSSSSSS (hopefully, you do exist) AND GENTLEMEN, Zeldapedia is proud to bring you, for the 38th time, the Temple of Courage! And boy, this week will be one fiercely (un)deadly fight!
 * colspan="2" style="width: 36%; background: #5a5f75"|[[Image:Dead_Hand_attacking.jpg|140px|center]]
 * colspan="2" style="background: #DDDDDD; text-align: center" valign="top"|<font
 * colspan="2" style="background: #DDDDDD; text-align: center" valign="top"|<font
 * colspan="2" style="width: 36%; background: #C41E3A"|[[Image:ReDead Knight.png|80px|center]]
 * style="width: 100%; background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px" colspan="6"|
 * style="width: 100%; background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px" colspan="6"|

In the one corner...we have an undead abomination whose appearance may or may not have been inspired by Michael Jackson...the bringer of nightmares of the braindead computer game addict generation...DEAD HAND!

And in the other...a mysterious undead swordsman that freezes the hearts of men (and Hylians, obviously) with its piercing scream...wreathed in the crimson red color of blood...REDEAD KNIGHT!

It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that this week's fight will be a good one! So...in the name of world peace, in the name of world profits...LET'S GET READY TO GRUMBLE, GRUMBLE!
 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #84899a; padding: 5px" valign="top"|
 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #84899a; padding: 5px" valign="top"|

Votes for Dead Hand

 * 1) Dude, what can I say? Dead Hand, with its decidedly Silent Hill-ish appearance and sick squelching noises, genuinely scared me when I was a kid...and I'm not a guy who is easily frightened. Also, had to do the battle with a quarter of a heart left due to my friend being a bad player. Jesus, I played like me life was on the line. Can't say that for those second-rate enemies from Twilight Princess. -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 02:53, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous votes

 * 1) Very much Dead Hand. ReDead Knights were extremly annoying, but not that scary, and, unlike in OoT, very easy to kill.


 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #e6687d; padding: 5px" valign="top"|

Anonymous votes

 * colspan=7 style="background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px;"|
 * colspan=7 style="background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px;"|

Peanut Gallery
Does anybody find the opening statement for the two battles a little offensive? I'm sort of on the fence. Girls do play video games, but there is a tendancy for more men to play than women. Mrs.MikauShadLink


 * }

Week 37: Orca vs. Rusl
{| style ="width: 100%;" size=5>Winner! "Rusl" LLLLLLLLLLLADIES AND GENTLEMEN, BOYS AND GIRLS, CHILDREN OF ALL AGES! Zeldapedia proudly brings to you the thirty-seventh week of gruesome, gory action...THIS IS THE TEMPLE OF COURAGE! BOOYA! And this week good sirs and madams, 'tis a fight between two gladiators; these two masters of swordplay will slice and dice until nothing is left. So...who will it be?
 * colspan="2" style="width: 36%; background: #4b3c67"|[[Image:Orca.png|140px|center]]
 * colspan="2" style="background: #DDDDDD; text-align: center" valign="top"|<font
 * colspan="2" style="background: #DDDDDD; text-align: center" valign="top"|<font
 * colspan="2" style="width: 36%; background: #eedc91"|[[Image:Rusl.png|80px|center]]
 * style="width: 100%; background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px" colspan="6"|
 * style="width: 100%; background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px" colspan="6"|

First, we have an elderly gentleman and once a proud warrior on the Great Sea...despite his age, he can still enter the fray and exit as the victor whenever the situation presents itself...a true swordsman...ORCAAAAAAAAAAA!

And his opponent, the (other) yellow-haired protector of Ordon Village...he was among the greatest fencers in Hyrule in the era he lived in...and now, he has returned to this no-man's-land between past and present to do battle...this...is...RUSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Need I say more, people? Those who are about to die are sponsored by Snacky S'mores! LET's FIGHT!
 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #846eb0; padding: 5px" valign="top"|
 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #846eb0; padding: 5px" valign="top"|

Votes for Orca

 * 1) Rusl is pretty generic and boring. Orca isn't all tha unique or original either, but there's something about him that makes him stand out. I don't know what it is about him, but I like him anyway.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  22:55, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) According to Fire Emblem, spear beats sword. Unless that sword is a lance reaver...but I don't Rusl has one of those. -- Moblin   Slayer [[Image:Ice Wizzrobe (The Minish Cap).gif]] 00:19, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Orca is the only person in the Zelda series able to withstand over 1000 sword strikes. Rusl looks like he'd collapse in about two hits. He swings his sword like an idiot when you approach him as Wolf Link. Portal-  Kombat
 * 4) He actually has a shadow of a past. For instance why is a swordsman never seen with anything other than a harpoon?   Metroidhunter32  03:24, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) This guy just looks mean, I mean c'mon he has no pupils, he's carrying (and can wield) a gigantic spear bigger than he is, the list goes on and on—[[Image:Triforce4.png|15px]] Triforce   14 ( ... ) 12:24, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 6) Orca is much more memorable. And he makes a really cool noise when he attacks you! haha. -SageofWater
 * 7) Orca was the only guy on Outset Island who knew swordplay until he taught Link. He even taught Link the greatest attack ever! The Hurricane Spin! User:Dragonmaster kayla
 * 8) I personally think that Orca did much more for Link as far as training, while Rusl only (techincly) gave Link his sword and got him into the Temple of Time. Plus, the Hurricane Spin is really cool. Sincerely, Watcher.
 * 9) Orca is a far better swordsman than Rusl, from what I can tell. Plus, he knows the hurricane spin, and he trained Link. SirReal
 * 10) Orca is just...awesome. Jarmihi
 * 11) didnt like rusl. he was too... i dont know. just didnt like him. enjoyed orca fights though (except the over 1000 one thats insane) Oni Dark Link
 * 12) rusl didn't teach link, but orca did. Solar flute
 * 13) I agree with oni dark link. I like windwake, and I always thought orca was cool. Xicera 01:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous votes

 * 1) My vote goes to Orca.. come on, have you ever seen a guy try to get an item on top of his shelve witch he can't reach? I bet it's to high for Rusl too but he would break his shoulder by hitting the wall... Who put it there anyway? it's his own home..
 * 2) OOORCAAA OOORCAAA OOORCAAA
 * 3) hey guess what...orca pones because a)he can take 1000 hits b4 crying b)polearm beats sword (yeah im geeky, get over it) c)he has more story d)hes like the yoda of zelda (he shouldve fought the guy from MM instead of Rusl)
 * 4) well i can clearly see rusl is an odd person so yea i'm going with orca
 * 5) Just look at their pictures. Seriously.  Look at their pictures and honestly tell me which one looks manlier.  Yeah, that's what I thought.
 * 6) Rusl gives you an ugly, hand-me-down OLD wooden sword. Orca gices you a beutiful blade.
 * 7) Orca rules! hello, he gots a knight's crest, duh...
 * 8) What is wrong with you people? Orca is way cooler than Rusl, who, IMO, is a totally useless coward. Does he even help you, at all? Orca is an awesome old guy who can kick your ass at sword fighting, and this is coming from someone who hates old people. Need I say more?
 * 9) ORCA RULEZ!!! I hate the cheap wooden sword.


 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #faf3b8; padding: 5px" valign="top"|

Votes for Rusl

 * 1) Rusl is a cool guy. While he's a coward and doesn't really do anything useful, like, ever, he's still cool. Most useless swordsman ever too...but! At least he isn't a dementia-ridden decrepit old man who utters sick-ass screams whenever someone screws up during training. Creepy! -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 22:49, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Rusl has a wife and kids and has an actual role on the plot, unlike Orca, who never leaves his house and has no affect on the main plot other than giving Link his sword. Plus, Rusl saves Link at Hyrule Castle. LapisScarab 00:34, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) I prefer Rusl because he's a character that moves; he doesn't stay in just one village or field, he goes everywhere. Orca stays in his house with his butthead, bighead brother. He protects his village when monsters come, instead of that old coot who just says "Monsters come out at night". Mrs.MikauShadLink 20:29, 1 March, 2009
 * 4) I like Rusl because he actually saves Link on his adventure, not like that old fart. Oddball464 17:11, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) Rusl hands down, Orca had no personality and Rusl was a better teacher, he taught Link so well HE could teach people. Also he actually does something in the storyDarkest-Link123 03:44, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 6) He is the first character to be shown in the game.  He sharpened Link's Wooden Sword, and crafted the Ordon Sword (that Link eventually...  stole).  He's a member of "The Group".  He's pretty darn good with a hawk.  He has a golden Cucco.  That's all some pretty cool stuff right there. Pianist Link  21:17, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 7) rusl no fight.(Coolicolo)
 * 8) Rusl was a competent swordsman in a Hyrule where swordsmanship mattered very much. Orca was an old man who barely had memories of swordsmanship because he lived in a time and place where it was no longer common. Rusl's younger age and better agility would likely overpower the older and more limited in knowledge Orca. Orca knew how to use the sword, but he likely only knew fragments of what Rusl knew. Rusl would just be in an overall better position to win this battle I feel. Hero of Time 87 15:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 9) rusl's a lot cooler than some old dude waving a harpoon around. DarkBeastGanon 15:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 10) I liked both games a lot and both characters taught us something about the sword. However, Rusl just seems like a better-suited character for the title of best swordsman. Orca was just a little weird. Golden Power 15:14, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 11) this guy just has more style than cap'n ahab over on the other side, end of story. LegendofZelda92 15:15, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 12) i'm gonna have to go with this guy, cause the other guy was just a little freaky, like those old men that lure little boys into their houses and....well you know. Heroofhyrule 15:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 13) Took me a while to decide, but rusl actually faces you down bravely and tries to protect his family when he thinks you are a twilight monster. Though he seemed afraid, wouldn't we all have been if a ferocious shadow wolf looked like it was going to eat you? Dialask77 15:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 14) Rusl is pretty cool. He moves from place to place and protects his pregnant wife when he thinks your going to kill her. Orca doesn't do anything! Zeldamaniac95
 * 15) definitely rusl. like someone else said, i just don't see much use in an old guy waving a harpoon around like he's hunting moby dick. Zeldarocks1989 23:09, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 16) Rusl is just way to awesome, he will definitely be the winner. Also, his "friend" the golden cuccoo is cool as well.[[Image:Maku_Seed_(Oracle_of_Seasons).gif]]--Twoface13 01:09, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[[Image:Maku_Seed_(Oracle_of_Ages).gif]]
 * 17) i concur, rusl bests orca by far and large. Midnalover89 02:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 18) eh...i just like this guy better, he's not so strange as the old dude. Sageofshadow 02:33, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * 19) Rusl didn't spend him time in the bottom floor of his house annoying his brother (if he even has one). He stood up against the Bulblins that invaded Ordon Village after the kids were kidnapped. He deserves this win. Leo604 11:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous votes

 * 1) Rusl would probably kick Orca's ass 6 ways to Sunday. While they're both skilled swordsman you have to be unique to be both a good guy and a villain at certain points in the story (during the Wolf Link part in Ordon Village, Rusl is somewhat of an antagonist). Stand next to him for 2 seconds and you're dead. Also he can handle a hawk that he used to save Link from getting his head impaled by Bulblin arrows. Even if hypothetically Orca won in a sword duel (which doesn't look like it's going to happen), Rusl would just call that hawk and have it gouge Orca's eyes out. Go Rusl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * 2) Rusl can play hard and won't be liable to age like Orca.
 * 3) Rusl is a REAL swordsman and much better of a character, whereas Orca is some out of shape flat character who doesnt know what hes doing when it comes to swordplay
 * 4) Rusl and Orca were both kind of annoying, but Rusl had some really good moments (that is, saving me the trouble of killing a freakish amount of enemies) but Orca was just annoying. Also, he hit me. A lot. That does not get forgiven.
 * 5) Orca was just a silly character to me, I mean he gives Link a sword yet he never uses one himself, instead resorting to waving a harpoon around like a crazy old coot. I just see Rusl as a more serious and competent wielder of the sword.
 * 6) Rusl is actually part of the story line, unlike Orca who is just there to give Link the sword. Rusl may not do that much, but he shows Link how to get to one of the temples and helps in the end as part of the rebellion.  Go Rusl!
 * 7) Rusl rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * 8) Rusl. And i'm not just saying that because he's from Twilight Princess. At least he has a backstory, unlike Orca (who's name happens to sound like a whale).


 * colspan=7 style="background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px;"|
 * colspan=7 style="background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px;"|

Peanut Gallery
What do you mean by "coward that doesn't do anything useful"? LapisScarab 00:35, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Interesting Fire Emblem analogy, Moblin slayer. Of course, the lance also loses if it's an axereaver, unless the lance is an axereaver and the sword is a lancereaver.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  01:38, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Rusl's Golden Cucco was more heroic and useful than Rusl himself. On a related subject, who else here has hit Orca 1000 times before he hits you three times? That was so tedious, but worth it because he breaks the fourth wall :) Portal-  Kombat

I did it, although it took me a pretty long time. I usually get tired around 450 hits.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  01:56, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Originally, I was gonna put that even if Rusl had a lance reaver Orca might win against it if he had an Axe reaver, but then that would lead to a long chain of how one could beat the other...-- Moblin  Slayer  19:12, 2 March 2009 (UTC) Moblin Slayer, It is possible in fire emblem to have a lance and beat an axe weilder. That is because if you have a steel sword against an iron axe, what has a slight more power?

Of course, following the recent influx of logical thinking around here, Rusl's strength stat could easily be way beyond Orca's anyway, had the game had RPG stats. -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 01:12, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Interesting how we're trying to relate the Legend of Zelda series and the Fire Emblem series when the only significant similarity is that they're both medieval.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  01:16, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm...isn't this when someone tries to convince us that Fire Emblem and Zelda take place in the same universe? And that Marth is Link's great-great-grandfather's second cousin twice removed? -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 01:35, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Which Link?  Metroidhunter32  02:07, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok ok, enough of the relating zelda to Fire Emblem. I mean sheesh. The only relation is that Lyon is Vaati's gret great grandfather and that they are both medieval! Dialask77 02:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That, and the fact that I used an image of Lyon as one of my characters for a fanfic on ZF...wait, does that relate? -- Moblin  Slayer [[Image:Ice Wizzrobe (The Minish Cap).gif]] 19:59, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Only if you want it to. Portal-  Kombat

i think i clicked the wrong link. isnt this zeldapedia? o wait its zeldaemblenpedia. next temple of courage fight link v marth Oni Dark Link

I'm cheering for marth personally. Dialask77 15:28, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

would be a fun thing to do. not on zeldapedia of course maybe a poll on the smas wiki. id have to vote link though Oni Dark Link

That was already settled in a Melee Event match. Marth beats Link.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  21:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I hate Marth. Roy was so much cooler with his BOMB SWORD in Melee. I'm not a Fire Emblem fan, though. My favorite "obscure" series is MOTHER all the way. Portal- Kombat
 * I wouldn't say it's "obscure". I mean, I hear a lot about Earthbound at least, if not the sequels. Now, games like Uncle Julius and the Anywhere Machine (which is pretty awesome...) I've never even heard mentioned anywhere. Aaaaaanyway, could someone please help us find the topic that disappeared at some point? -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 21:57, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Can't say I'm a fan of Marth either; he's really the generic "honorable prince" character. Nothing interesting about him at all. He's not that impressive in the Super Smash Bros. games, either. Also, I don't feel that Fire Emblem or Mother are obscure at all. Not nearly as popular as the Mario or Zelda series, but really popular in their own rights.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  22:08, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, Fire Emblem and MOTHER aren't nearly as obscure as... whatever AK said. They just tend to be the series' whose characters are usually rediscovered through Smash Bros. I learned about Ness and Lucas through Melee. And on the topic of the fight, I have to say this is pretty balanced so far. However, Rusl is going to win and prove once again that people have some strange urge to vote for characters from Twilight Princess. Portal- Kombat

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/Kaizer13/Objection.gif I must object to that statement: I don't think most people vote for Twilight Princess characters by default. I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but saying that people automatically vote Twilight Princess seems a bit narrow-minded and generalizing to me. It doesn't "prove" anything about anyone. I don't see that many comments comparing one game to another here either...which is a good thing. -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 02:05, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

That could have been a bit smaller AK, but I didn't realize that rusl was from tp...If I had I would have voted for him almost... automatically... *makes beeping robot sounds* Dialask77 02:30, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Uh... I didn't say that there was anything WRONG with being an instant Twilight Princess voter. Some people vote for a certain character because they like the game that person was in better. I nearly always vote Wind Waker, it's my favorite game. Portal- Kombat

anonymous voter for orca, it's spelled pwns, not pones. (I spend way too much time on the internet) Solar flute

Um, how is it narrow-minded at all? All Portal-Kombat is saying is that most people vote for Twilight Princess things for some strange reason. That's a straight fact. He's not necessarily saying anybody's saying that people vote for them because they're from Twilight Princess, just that people tend to vote for thing that happen to be from Twilight Princess.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  03:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I will admit that I am a little bit partial to TP. But I always vote for who's better no matter what game they are from. Also I think the reason that everyone votes for TP characters is that having never played a zelda game before they played TP then came here for one reason or another and are the zelda versions of Halo fanboys who won't listen to a word against them. Trust me I see a lot of fanboys who fit that description.  Metroidhunter32  14:59, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, so what you're trying to say is that TP has a definite fanbase advantage in battles? That, agree with. I wish people could base their votes on the character itself rather than the game it appears in though. -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 15:31, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry AK but you know what they say about wishing in one hand and doing something else in the other do see which one fills up faster. I agree that they should vote for the better character, but I find it unlikely that they will. but it was close for a while and orca was winning at first so it wasn't a bad fight. Dialask77 14:20, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

TP only wins a lot because everything (well mostly) is better, honestly I am shocked Orca did this well, he wasnt much of a character and TWW is the most bashed Zelda out thereDarkest-Link123 00:33, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh man, I just knew a Twilight Princess fanboy would get involved in this conversation at some point. Look, please just take your insulting comments elsewhere. Nobody wants to hear you insult a perfectly good game.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  02:05, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Dont make an argument out of things, I didnt insult any Zelda game, the closest I got to insulting it was saying that WW is the most bashed 3D game, and it is, I didnt say I hate it, but saying WW isnt the most bashed game is like saying nobody found Navi annoying.Darkest-Link123 03:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Thing is, it's common knowledge that people don't like Navi. On the other hand, Wind Waker being the "most bashed game" is your own personal opinion that is not shared by a significant amount of people. And in actuality, both statements are insults; Navi fans just tend to let it roll off of them since Navi haters are so common, so you don't see many people saying that they're insults, while in actuality they are. And I'm not making an argument out of things; I'm just asking you to please not insult Wind Waker, or any other game for that matter.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  04:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Seriously? Ok looking at the sales 20-50% of the Zelda fans didnt play it JUST because of the cell shading, then we can go into the game and hear the sailing rants. I see more WW hate than Navi hate to be honestDarkest-Link123 04:21, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Look, I'm not getting involved in this. If my not responding will shut you up with your close-minded opinionated comments, I'm fine not talking to you.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  06:07, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Im afraid you have to learn that sales are facts, theres no opinion in it.Darkest-Link123 06:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Try looking at the real world and seeing what people actually think of the game instead of checking the statistics and making close-minded assumptions. I think you'll find that a lot of people that have actually tried this game like it (well, actually, no you won't; I doubt you'd be open-minded enough to actually realize that some people have different opinions). People automatically look at the game's cartoony graphics and say "Oh, that game must have been made for 7-year-olds" and boycott it without even trying it. So no, in this case, sales are not facts, as they have no significance to the subject at hand; sales do not necessarily mean anything in terms of the quality of the game. Also, regardless of whether Wind Waker is considered bad or not, that is a bit of an aside. The point is that you shouldn't insult games that certain people like, whether or not you or anybody else thinks they're bad. It's fine to exert your own opinion (for example, you can say that you found the game annoying, boring, frustrating, etc.), but simply saying that the game is bad (or "bashed", in your words) is generally not excepted.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  07:44, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

i personly like navi and think wind waker is a fantastic game and (in my opnion) is better then twilight princess and can even rival ocerina of time. Oni Dark Link

XZ and Darkest-Link, let's not go too far with all this now. I think, reading what you guys have already written, that this has been blown way out of proportion. Darkest-Link, you stated the fact that Twilight Princess had greater sales records than The Wind Waker, and that The Wind Waker is one of the most criticized of all the Zelda games due to its cel-shading, which are both true. And XZ, you are making the point that just because one game has lower sales than the other does not negate the quality of the game itself in the eyes of those who have actually played it, which is also very true. Look guys, both of you are making valid arguments here, but I think it's just gotten blown way out of proportion. XZ, I don't think Darkest-Link is necessarily criticizing The Wind Waker, merely just stating what we all already know, that the art style didn't go over as well with the public as that of Twilight Princess, hence why not as many people were willing to take it seriously at first. However it grew on people enough that it became one of Nintendo's best-sellers on its Gamecube list, they even made a new box for it giving it that title years ago. I personally love The Wind Waker, and after playing it through once or twice, the cel-shading does indeed grow on you. However, Twilight Princess did indeed blow me away as far as graphics go. Now in terms of story and game quality, I'd say the two are evenly matched, but the sales records may not show that due to the general public being more skeptical of The Wind Waker due to its look. I liked The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both equally to be honest, both had a compelling story and had good graphics when you looked at them in an objective way. But my true love has always been and will always be Ocarina of Time. No game will ever completely top it. They may match it, but never top it.

And for the record, while I did find Navi a bit annoying at times, I still liked her as a character regardless. Hero of Time 87 15:28, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Im not saying thats bad either, people have different opinions. True the people who played it liked it for the most part, just like any other Zelda game, I myself liked it. But sales kinda are statistics for it, if about half of the LoZ fans boycotted it do you think WW is going to have a lot of love going on for it? No, its not fair and I'm not saying its a good thing but just because the basher didnt even buy the game doesnt mean he wont bash it anymore.Darkest-Link123 15:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC)Oh whoops I edited at the wrong time, well Hero of Times right, lets stop thisDarkest-Link123 15:41, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I should start a club or something whose sole purpose is to find something for wizzrobe to fight. I mean seriously I have been thinking about this for weeks... XYZ you are a brilliant mind, can you think of anything? Dialask77 03:32, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've got it! It doesn't involve Wizzrobe, but it's similar...Veran vs. Aghanim!  The two masters of magic.  In the meantime, I'll think of something to face Wizzrobe...-- Moblin   Slayer [[Image:Ice Wizzrobe (The Minish Cap).gif]] 03:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Anyone know why this looks screwed up? -- Moblin  Slayer  20:12, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

It's all the exclamation marks on that anonmys vote.  Metroidhunter32  21:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * }

Week 36: Igos du Ikana vs. Master Stalfos
{| style ="width: 100%;" size=5>Winner! "Igos du Ikana" (18 > 4 1/2) LLLLLLLLLADIES AND GENTLEMEN! Please direct your attention towards the two rising figures at opposite sides of the arena, and you shall see the begining of a real treat: The beginning of the 36th week of THE TEMPLE OF COURAGE! All right!
 * colspan="2" style="width: 36%; background: #66023C"|[[Image:Igos du Ikana.png|140px|center]]
 * colspan="2" style="background: #DDDDDD; text-align: center" valign="top"|<font
 * colspan="2" style="background: #DDDDDD; text-align: center" valign="top"|<font
 * colspan="2" style="width: 36%; background: blue"|[[Image:Master Stalfos.gif|140px|center]]
 * style="width: 100%; background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px" colspan="6"|
 * style="width: 100%; background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px" colspan="6"|

In the red corner, we have a tall, decorated figure. The ruler of Ikana, he wields a sword and shield, haunts the Ancient Castle of Ikana, and is (reluctantly) too tough to die, it's IGOS DU IKANAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

In the opposite blue corner, we have a rising Stalfos, who is different from most of his kind. He rules the Stalfos, also wields a sword and shield, persistently pursues Link throughout his home in the Catfish's Maw, and is also too tough to die, it's MASTER STALFOOOOOOOOOOOS!

Two rulers of undead races, two skeleton men who, like Tombstone, are too tough to die, two monsters who have nothing to lose but their unlife! Who will win? I'll leave that up to you, voters! I hate to waffle, so LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE! Yeah!
 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #DB7093; padding: 5px" valign="top"|
 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: #DB7093; padding: 5px" valign="top"|

Votes for Igos du Ikana

 * 1) "Believing in your friends and embracing belief by forgiving failure... these feelings have vanished from our hearts." He said something like this, I think, after you defeated him and his two lackeys. I think it was one of the most powerful lines in Majora's Mask (although there's a wide selection of those) and it made him more than just some forced mini-boss.  Portal-  Kombat
 * 2) the dude was a king--Twilitlink 05:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) An insanely powerful swordsman, a King, teaches you the elegy of emptiness, and presides near one of the most amazing places in the Zelda universe?  Igos gets my vote. Dialask77 07:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) He's the king of an undead kingdom. As if that wasn't enough, he has two servants.  I mean, the Master Stalfos doesn't even have one servant! -- Moblin   Slayer [[Image:Ice Wizzrobe (The Minish Cap).gif]] 14:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) He looks cool, he's the ruler of an undead nation, he has two servants, and has some of the most effective lines in the game. (Mailtoad)
 * 6) He's king.  the end.   Metroidhunter32  21:07, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 7) Igos has two servants, and they were all a pain to fight. Also I like the scene if you put on the Captain's Hat and it confuses Igos. Oddball464 15:22, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 8) Loved the fight. Can't get much better than a detachable head. — [[Image:Triforce4.png|15px]] Triforce   14 ( ... ) 00:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 9) This was hard for me. Igos is a pain in the derrier to fight, and Master Stalfos comes up 4 times. I cannot stand repeated fight at all. Plus, Igos has servants and is smart enough to realize you're not the captain. Mrs.MikauShadLink
 * 10) Far more than just a miniboss. Plus, I love the Elegy of Emptiness. And you can't go past a detachable head! - (ryttu3k)
 * 11) its all been said already. igos is a king not an annoying four time mini boss. you fight him once and he acts very kingly about it. plus he has guards and two easter eggs in his fight (i count the guard fight as part of the fight) Oni Dark Link
 * 12) he looks cool!Zeldamaniac95
 * 13) Jarmihi Better fighter, different strategies in 3-D than in 2-D.  Along with the writer of the second anonymous vote, Igos du Ikana will probably obliterate Master Stalfos.
 * 14) Igos is one of the few mini-boss who provides interest. In most mini-boss fights, it's basically kill and move on. Igos on the other hand, provides a bit of background of what happend to his kind.  So he's clearly my vote --Lore master 04:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 15) Igos Du Ikana is not only a ruler in his own right, but his battle was far more difficult than Master Stalfos. Igos also has greater dexterity and faster reflexes than Master Stalfos, so this is a no-brainer. Hero of Time 87 18:43, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 16) Ikana Kingdom owns. So does he. I LOVED the Ikana Kingdom part of mm, so here I am. Xicera 01:21, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Anonymous votes

 * 1) I know neither of them, and I haven't fought any of them but this one looks cooler and his page is longer.
 * 2) Our buddy Igos would probably just obliterate Master Stalfos with his flaming throwing head attack.
 * 3) IGOS!IGOS!IGOS!
 * 4) Igos was really fun to fight scince his head can come off and eat you. And his servants dance when you play music with the breman mask. IT WAS SO AWESOME!


 * colspan="3" style="width: 50%; background: lightblue; padding: 5px" valign="top"|

Votes for Master Stalfos

 * 1) This was an extremely tough decision for me, and I think that Igos du Ikana is incredibly awesome, but I have to admit that he's kind of a pain to fight (I still can't figure out how to dodge that attack where he removes his head.....also, he uses his shield way too much). Granted, Igos' Servants, Garo, and pretty much Ikana in itself are all miles ahead of Master Stalfos, but the fight with Igos just kind of put me off a little. Also, this guy is pretty persistent, you have to fight him 4 times.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  03:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) What can I say? Master Stalfos and his tricky "rematches"/hide 'n' seek game stumped me for a good two hours back when I first played Link's Awakening. When I fought him, I blinked and managed to kill Igos du Ikana. Besides, I love these fights where ya have to strike the guy and bomb the crap out of him. -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 07:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Come on. You all now that Master Stalfos is the best. You have to fight him, like, about 3 times...I think. User:Dragonmaster kayla
 * 4) As cool as an undead king is, a skeleton king of Stalfos who does not leave you alone (restraining order anyone?) is much cooler. Sincerely, Watcher.

Anonymous votes

 * 1) Ok iv'e decided to put stalfos in the number one spot on my top ten most powerful enemys list So master stalfos would knock stalfos right off the whole list! Mr.Fairy


 * colspan=7 style="background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px;"|
 * colspan=7 style="background: #DDDDDD; padding: 5px;"|

Peanut Gallery
One thing I don't get. In the intro to the fight it says that Igos Du Ikana haunts the Stone Tower Temple. I remember him being a mini-boss in the Ancient Castle of Ikana, not the tower. That was the place you went after you defeated him and got the Elegy of Emptiness. Portal- Kombat
 * Yep, guess Watcher messed up. Meh, we all do, right? -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 07:48, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Watcher can't really be blamed- the problem with Majora's Mask is that it's hard to tell the difference between certain places and actual dungeons. For example, would you consider "Bottom of the Well" a dungeon in Majora's Mask? I've also heard the term "mini-dungeon" used to describe places in Ocarina of Time like the Ice Cavern and Gerudo Training Ground. Portal-  Kombat

I would not consider bottom of the well a dungeon in Majora's Mask, as it is in OOT

Bottom of the Well isn't really a mini-dungeon, since it doesn't really have anything that would constitute it as a dungeon other than a prize (the Mirror Shield), such as keys, puzzles, or a boss or mini-boss (I guess you could say that the Big Poe is the boss, but that's kind of a weak argument). You basically just go from one room to the next and fight a couple enemies along the way, but that's pretty much it. On the other hand, I would consider Ice Cavern and Gerudo Training Ground mini-dungeons because they have prizes, keys, puzzles, and overall a mini-dungeon-like feel to them. Additionally, Ice Cavern has a compass, map, and boss (I do consider the White Wolfos the boss, despite it being insanely weak).  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  19:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Are you stupid? The bottom of the Well is in OOT, and you get the lens of truth. where are you people getting this crap from? It is NOT in Majoras Mask, and you dont get the mirror sheild.

Well, the White Wolfos did have that other battle theme for when you fought it, so I guess you could call it a boss/miniboss. Portal- Kombat

Besides the fact that this doesn't really have much to do with Igos vs Master Stalfos... I think that bottom of the well IS a mini-dungeon because it, unlike most overworld places, has traps. It is dark, it is underground it is small...it sounds to me like it constitutes as a mini-dungeon. Big poe is more fearsome than white wolfos and lets not forget that wallmasters never appear anywhere besides dungeons and mini-dungeons. Dialask77 02:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Anyone ever heard of a long day? I was tired, I saw Stone Tower Temple, and assumed that it was where he lived. And we all know what you get if you spell "assume" out... Incidently, we really need to archive Weeks 31 through 34, 'cause this page is getting really long... Sincerely, Watcher
 * Hmm, maybe you should do this kind of stuff when you have more time to immerse yourself in the participants in the future? -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 02:54, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Wha? Sincerely, Watcher.

It is amazing how many people (including me) voted for Igos just because he is king.  Metroidhunter32  21:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The dark, underground, and small points don't really mean anything. I mean, that little grave in the Kakariko Graveyard in Ocarina of Time in which you get a Hylian Shield is all those things, but that definitely isn't a mini-dungeon. Traps don't have to appear only in dungeons. Also, I can think of at least one place that is not a dungeon or mini-dungeon in which Wallmasters appear (I'm sure there are more, but I can think of one off the top of my head): that area beneath Dampe's house where you fight the Big Poe for a bottle. So no, Wallmasters appear in places other than dungeons and mini-dungeons. Whether or not Big Poe is more powerful than White Wolfos does not matter; White Wolfos is a climactic boss fight that you fight in the last room of Ice Cavern, whereas Big Poe is found in a side room and does not even have to be fought in order to complete the Bottom of the Well (it's certainly very convenient to do so, yes, but it's not necessary). While certain minibosses don't have to be fought, such as King Bulblin (the Hyrule Castle fight) and Gohma (Link's Awakening), certainly all bosses should be fought. Also, it doesn't have a very mini-dungeon-like feel to it; instead of steadily progressing through the dungeon solving puzzles in order to go to the next area, you play fetch-the-deku-nut with a Gibdo. Half the time, you'll be leaving the Bottom of the Well in order to get the item you need. It's really more of a collect-a-thon than a mini-dungeon, in my opinion. In addition, why have two mini-dungeons (Bottom of the Well and Ancient Castle of Ikana) back to back?  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  22:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * They might've had more mini-dungeons in Majora's Mask to make up for the fact that there were only 4 full dungeons in the game compared to Ocarina of Time's NINE (and at least 3 mini-dungeons as well). It's been a while since I did the Gibdo well maze in Majora's Mask so I'm probably mistaken about this, but I recall that one of the gibdos in my way wanted a Big Poe soul "A ghost... and a big one at that!" but I forget whether or not that path was necessary. Also, the white wolfos, while a necessary mini-boss to reach the Iron Boots, is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a "climactic boss fight" although by definition, it is. Maybe they intentionally wanted it to be strange that the mini-boss died in like a hit because they knew the soon-to-come Water Temple would be intense. Portal-  Kombat

Right, but if they were to several mini-dungeons, it would be so much better to spread them out. Also, it is indeed on a necessary path, but you're forgetting that there's another Big Poe in the game, and if you kill that one, it's quite possible to get it to that Gibdo. It's insanely inconvenient (seeing as you have to cram it into the night of the final day), and very few people would actually go out of their ways to do it, but my point is that you don't absolutely have to fight it, as you do with pretty much every boss. When I said climactic, I meant that it was in the last room and the prize appeared when you killed it, not that it was epic or anything like that.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  04:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

The way I see it XYZ is that it can't qualify as a dungeon, it can't qualify as the overworld, and  mini-dungeon rolls off the tongue a good bit better than a run-and-fetch-the-deku-sticky-place. As such, unless we should create a new type of section for non-overworld places to fall under which would be mostly for this place in particular, the best thing to call it IS a minidungeon. Dialask77 13:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I guess I can't argue with that, although I still personally don't think that it's a mini-dungeon. Also, now that I think about it, I think that either the Big Poe room led to a cow that you could use to access the milk room, which led to the Mirror Shield, or the cow was in a different place and was needed to get into the milk room, which led to the Big Poe that you could use to access the Big Poe room, which led to the Mirror Shield. Either way, fighting the Big Poe isn't necessary, but it's far less necessary in the former option, since milk is far easier to come by than a Big Poe.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  18:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

the big poe is neseary, at least having one is necessary, fighting that exact one isnt. maybe it should be called a mini minidungeon. Oni Dark Link

Alright, I loaded my completed game and played through the Bottom of the Well. Assuming you take the most optimal path, the way it goes is 5 Magic Beans -> Fish -> Big Poe -> Milk. The Big Poe is off in a side room in the southeast corner (if you look at the map, it's the large square room). I experimented with trying to fight the Big Poe that guards the bottle and it's actually quite easy to defeat it and get it the Gibdo as long as you play the Inverted Song of Time (maybe even if you don't). I can now confirm that, while you must fight a Big Poe, you are not required to fight the Big Poe in the Bottom of the Well. It's also in a very remote corner of the area and isn't even in the climactic position of being the last thing required to get into the Mirror Shield room (that goes to milk), whereas Igos du Ikana, White Wolfos, Dead Hand, etc. are all found right there guarding the prize. Due to this, I don't think that Big Poe counts as a boss, and if it doesn't even have a boss, I don't consider it a mini-dungeon.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  01:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Why the bloody 'ell is the "Votes" section for Master Stalfos blue? We all know how difficult it makes it to see anyone's signature who hasn't altered it. Can we change it?--Bek The Conqueror 03:24, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY Everybody!!!!!!!! Sorry iv'e become crazy since i haven't been on Zealdapedia for a month! By the way, have any of you noticed that the gray corner in the temple of courage is pink? And Xykeb Zraliv, please don't get angry just because I said that.Sinceraly,Mr.Fairy

Hey AK, could you tell me how you the third boss in the origonal zelda game? He's driving me nuts! Another thing, Iv'e heard about the White sowrd but I can't find it! If you can take the time to do that tell me where to go from the start screen.Sinceraly, Mr.Fairy

Hey xyz,could you tell me if its possible to put things on a user's talk page if not a user?Mr.Fairy

I never get "angry". I just sometimes point out that you're wrong; there's a huge difference. And yes, you can put comments on other people's talk pages even if you're not a user. Also, please just ask people things on their talk pages. This is the Temple of Courage, not a place for you to ask people things completely unrelated to anything having to do with the Temple of Courage. This is not your own personal space on Zeldapedia and you really don't have a right to treat it as such.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  03:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Err, Mr. Fairy, could you please talk about the fight or something similar in the comment section? This isn't a walkthrough. If you won't stay on the subject, things will happen. Oh yeah, and Zraliv? Saying that you "never get angry" sounds kinda strange to me...I mean, EVERYONE gets angry. Of course, you might mean in discussions and such yeah? -- Auron  Kaizer ( ...Kaizer! ) 04:58, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Whoops, forgot to put the second half of that sentence. I meant to say that I never get angry at Mr. Fairy.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  06:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

You know, I don't really see much difference between these two. What's the difference between an undead skeleton and an undead skeleton?

You swore not to acknowledge it Watcher, don't talk to Mister Fairy, immitation is the sincerest form of flatery, he hasn't said anything against you yet... AAAAAAAAAUUUUUGH! Sincerely, Watcher

To the anonymous user: clearly you're one of those people that stereotypes all undead skeletons as the same thing. These are far different in terms of battle strategies, appearances, personalities, and plot significance.

To Watcher: Say what? Sorry, I really don't get what you just said.  Xykeb   Yvolix   Zraliv  05:36, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I was just saying that the last time he came around, he was really anoying, and I don't want to get involved in anything now that he's back. Sincerely, Watcher

I hope next week we get a more challenging fight.whos with me?Mr.Fairy

TO MR. FAIRY: My favorite fight was "The Group" vs. "Tetra's Pirates" even if there was some arguing, I think that was the coolest fight. I'm going to look and see if next week's fight is more challenging. Portal- Kombat


 * }